We must draft better...

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

I will go through them in a second, but the cap is a NFL wide thing. the Redskins dont have a different cap. the articles I posted are regarding the NFL cap. just like rules, the NFL, NBA, MLB all have rules. Certain teams dont have there own rules to operate, they operate under the same umbrella.

On the Warpath's main page you'll see a link to the left hand side of the screen for Salary Cap Info. Click that and you'll get a set of spreadsheets with tabs at the bottom. Click on the cap summary sheet to see the players' cap figures for each season. These sheets are managed by CrazyCanuck.

I'm not saying there are different rules for the Redskins. I'm saying that the Redskins have not put themselves in the precarious situation that you are making them out to be in. When you examine the numbers, you can tell me where the major problems are that will cause us to dismantle our squad. Because I don't see it.

[#56fanatic]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

On the Warpath's main page you'll see a link to the left hand side of the screen for Salary Cap Info. Click that and you'll get a set of spreadsheets with tabs at the bottom. Click on the cap summary sheet to see the players' cap figures for each season. These sheets are managed by CrazyCanuck.

I'm not saying there are different rules for the Redskins. I'm saying that the Redskins have not put themselves in the precarious situation that you are making them out to be in. When you examine the numbers, you can tell me where the major problems are that will cause us to dismantle our squad. Because I don't see it.

OK, I went throught them this morning and of the contracts listed there are a few that I would say could be problems. COULB BE problems.
1) LaVar, he is 12million next year, then its about 11 million a year there after.
2)Samuels 8 to 9 million everyyear for the 5
3) Brunell - 5.5 next yr,at 36yrs old then goes up about a million each year, with 9 million at age 40 approximately, now obviously I realize he probably doesn't make into 2007, which it will be about 8 million against the cap and spread that out, its about 4 million a year.
Portis jumps to 5.5 next year, then a million each year from there ending at about 8 or 9 million
Springs at 30 years old is 5.5 then 6.5 and around 8 million at like age 34.

those are the ones I think could be problems. 3 or 4 of those guys are key position player if not all, not counting Brunell.
when we get to 2008 We have aproximately 70+ million tied up in only 10 to 11 players. If those guys are released, because they still have multiple years left, your are talking about spreading out there bonuses over 2 year period max, of those players Lavar, samuels, springs, brunell, portis, all have big signing bonuses. Restructure? Still has future implications of some sort.

But overall, 2008 they will have to be reworking, cutting, or what ever. Which again leads to turnover on the roster ofter guys playing a few years together. I dont know what will happen in the 2007, 2008 or beyond. But 70+ million in 11 players is alot of money when you have 53 players to account for. The cap could be as much as 110 million by then, which gives you 40 million for 40 other guys. But we only have 17 guys under contract in 2008. Dont know, but you asked for what I thought would be , or could be problems and thats what I gather.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

OK, I went throught them this morning and of the contracts listed there are a few that I would say could be problems. COULB BE problems.
1) LaVar, he is 12million next year, then its about 11 million a year there after.
2)Samuels 8 to 9 million everyyear for the 5
3) Brunell - 5.5 next yr,at 36yrs old then goes up about a million each year, with 9 million at age 40 approximately, now obviously I realize he probably doesn't make into 2007, which it will be about 8 million against the cap and spread that out, its about 4 million a year.
Portis jumps to 5.5 next year, then a million each year from there ending at about 8 or 9 million
Springs at 30 years old is 5.5 then 6.5 and around 8 million at like age 34.

those are the ones I think could be problems. 3 or 4 of those guys are key position player if not all, not counting Brunell.
when we get to 2008 We have aproximately 70+ million tied up in only 10 to 11 players. If those guys are released, because they still have multiple years left, your are talking about spreading out there bonuses over 2 year period max, of those players Lavar, samuels, springs, brunell, portis, all have big signing bonuses. Restructure? Still has future implications of some sort.

But overall, 2008 they will have to be reworking, cutting, or what ever. Which again leads to turnover on the roster ofter guys playing a few years together. I dont know what will happen in the 2007, 2008 or beyond. But 70+ million in 11 players is alot of money when you have 53 players to account for. The cap could be as much as 110 million by then, which gives you 40 million for 40 other guys. But we only have 17 guys under contract in 2008. Dont know, but you asked for what I thought would be , or could be problems and thats what I gather.

You need to check out the Release Fee tab. It's very revealing. It lists, for each year, the guy's expected cap hit for that year and the "release fee." The release fee represents the cap hit we'd carry for that player if we cut him or traded him that year. So basically, if the release fee is lower than the cap hit in that year, you can SAVE CAP ROOM by getting rid of that player.

With that in mind let's examine Brunell. In 2006, Brunell's cap hit will be $5.4 million if he's on the team, and his release fee would hit our cap with $5.7 million if we cut him. So we wouldn't want to cut him in 2006, because it would cost more to cut him than to keep him. Plus the intention was to have Brunell around as starter for 3 years. Sure enough, in 2007, the release fee would represent a savings over his 2007 cap hit. In 2007 he's scheduled to hit us for $6.6 million, but releasing him would hit us with only $4.3 million in dead money. That's a lot more palatable than something like Coles' $9 million.

This is the kind of thing I'm talking about. When we do eventually have to eat a hit on these guys, the hits aren't as big. The players signed under Spurrier like Coles and Trotter resulted in crippling blows to our salary cap. But Brunell won't, and that was one of the signings people were complaining about most.

Let's consider the rest of the players Gibbs has signed. Let's say we cut them in 2007. The most dead money we'd carry in 2007 would be for Carlos Rogers or Santana Moss, who would both hit us with $7 million in dead cap money. The rest would be like $4 million or less. Now, can you imagine us cutting Moss or Rogers by 2007? I can't. This is proof positive that we're in great shape. Samuels was a re-sign under Gibbs, he'd represent a big cap hit if we had to cut him. But he's such a rock and always plays hurt, the chance of cutting him seems pretty low.

Nobody has reasonable potential to decimate our salary cap, with the exception of Arrington. Arrington's contract is the one that causes most concern, but mostly because he is now developing a reputation as an injury-prone guy. But if you only have one player on your team that represents a risk of decimating your cap, you're not doing too bad. Again, we're not perfect. But we're in good shape overall.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

But overall, 2008 they will have to be reworking, cutting, or what ever. Which again leads to turnover on the roster ofter guys playing a few years together. I dont know what will happen in the 2007, 2008 or beyond. But 70+ million in 11 players is alot of money when you have 53 players to account for. The cap could be as much as 110 million by then, which gives you 40 million for 40 other guys. But we only have 17 guys under contract in 2008. Dont know, but you asked for what I thought would be , or could be problems and thats what I gather.

If you're figuring a 10% rise in the salary cap each year, the 2008 cap will be $113 million. Seems about right given the new TV deals and such, it might even be higher. But I doubt lower than $113 million.

The $70 million that is currently wrapped up in those 11 players is mostly base salary and roster bonuses. That would easily be restructured by then, moving most of the money into the future years. But before you start, please spare me the sermon on delaying the cap hits in this fashion. As long as you don't delay TOO MUCH of it, you stay in great shape.

[Riggo44]

I agree. Marty did nothing but help the REDSKINS! If we had kept him around we would have been to the playoffs by now.

[MTK]

Cap hell is not being limited to making tough choices like the Skins did with Smoot and Pierce. Every team is faced with decisions like that, you can't just sign everyone.

When the media talks of the Skins headed towards cap hell each offseason, they're referring to what teams like the Titans went through last year, where they have to sell off players just to be able to field a full roster and they are severely limited in what they can do personnel wise.

C'mon Beems, are you telling me the Skins are in cap hell right now?

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Cap hell is not being limited to making tough choices like the Skins did with Smoot and Pierce. Every team is faced with decisions like that, you can't just sign everyone.

When the media talks of the Skins headed towards cap hell each offseason, they're referring to what teams like the Titans went through last year, where they have to sell off players just to be able to field a full roster and they are severely limited in what they can do personnel wise.

C'mon Beems, are you telling me the Skins are in cap hell right now?

I think we can safely say that cap constraints were a factor in our inability to retain Fred Smoot and Antonio Pierce.

Look, if this everything's coming up roses with regard to personnel decision-making and cap management as some here seem to imply, are you telling me that we wouldn't be in any better of a situation than we're in right now?

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

I think we can safely say that cap constraints were a factor in our inability to retain Fred Smoot and Antonio Pierce.

Look, if this everything's coming up roses with regard to personnel decision-making and cap management as some here seem to imply, are you telling me that we wouldn't be in any better of a situation than we're in right now?

I agree with you here, Beem. If we hadn't given Coles and Trotter such big signing bonuses, we probably could have kept Smoot and Pierce. But the point is the Gibbs regime has learned those lessons through the mistakes of the Spurrier regime. Since Gibbs took over, I haven't seen one deal signed that could be considered potentially crippling to the salary cap.

The thing about the salary cap is the mistakes you make in the past haunt you in the present. The mistakes you make in the present don't haunt you until the future. We can't do anything about past mistakes at this point, except learn from them. So the question is what mistakes are we making today? As I look at the numbers, I don't see any.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

I think we can safely say that cap constraints were a factor in our inability to retain Fred Smoot and Antonio Pierce.

Look, if this everything's coming up roses with regard to personnel decision-making and cap management as some here seem to imply, are you telling me that we wouldn't be in any better of a situation than we're in right now?

I'm not denying that cap constraints played a role in our inability to re-sign both Smoot & Pierce, though I would argue a deal with Pierce was on the table so the Skins obviously had some room for him, not as much as he wanted but that's life.

Nobody is implying our cap situation is perfect, but the argument is are we headed towards an impending cap hell, and I argue we definitely are not.

[Schneed10]

Here are the players who got big signing bonuses under Gibbs:

Carlos Rogers $9.1 million
Clinton Portis $11.5 million
Cornelius Griffin $8.3 million
Marcus Washington $7 million
Mark Brunell $8.6 million
Santana Moss $10 million
Sean Taylor $11.6 million
Shawn Springs $10.2 million

In my eyes, based on their play over the last two years, every single one of them has justified those bonuses and then some, with the exception of Rogers who needs more time to prove himself. Brunell's contract was steep at the time of signing, but ask yourself, where would we be without him right now?

Kudos to the current staff. There's a reason we've already won more games this year than we did last year.

[lifetimeskin]

OH WELL, I was looking for a discussion on our draft experience, and it started out that way, but by god, "CAP HELL" took over. I sure would like to have a discussion on our drafting. I am not sure where to get the info for other teams, but it would be worth while to compare with maybe the feagles, the giants, the cowgirls, and the pats.

If anyone has a website, I'll do the analysis!

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by lifetimeskin

OH WELL, I was looking for a discussion on our draft experience, and it started out that way, but by god, "CAP HELL" took over. I sure would like to have a discussion on our drafting. I am not sure where to get the info for other teams, but it would be worth while to compare with maybe the feagles, the giants, the cowgirls, and the pats.

If anyone has a website, I'll do the analysis!

LOL. Maybe next time start a thread called "Cap Hell"...then we can discuss our draft history.

[bedlamVR]

As for the original discusion on the draft the leugue is littered with first day draft busts and really it is day one where you have to make your choices count and in that regard I belive we havent done too bad . One problem is fans have no patience in regard to player development already Taylor Jaobs is written off, Betts is written off etc etc .

Yes it is good to find good players on day 2 but equallly if you can get equal value from UDFA isn't that a good way to go too ? Ryan Clark, Lamar Marshell, Chris Clemons, Demetric Evans, Ade Jimoha (makes a good 4th CB in this legue), Aki Smith, Cedric Killings even the likes of mike Sellars and James Thrash were orginally UDFAs by this team .

Another point is FA and traded players can make a winning team . Just looking at QB a key area talked about in the draft Jake Delhomme took the panthers to the super bowl wasnt drafted by them, Matt Hasselbeck was in Green Bay, Brad Johnson took the bucs to the superbowl and he started life where he is now with the Vikings .

The point is there is always more than one way to field a competitive team and those who live throught the mantra of draft draft draft have to live with the consiquence and be prepared to wait 3-4 years to see thier draft classes pan out .

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by bedlamVR

As for the original discusion on the draft the leugue is littered with first day draft busts and really it is day one where you have to make your choices count and in that regard I belive we havent done too bad . One problem is fans have no patience in regard to player development already Taylor Jaobs is written off, Betts is written off etc etc .

Yes it is good to find good players on day 2 but equallly if you can get equal value from UDFA isn't that a good way to go too ? Ryan Clark, Lamar Marshell, Chris Clemons, Demetric Evans, Ade Jimoha (makes a good 4th CB in this legue), Aki Smith, Cedric Killings even the likes of mike Sellars and James Thrash were orginally UDFAs by this team .

Another point is FA and traded players can make a winning team . Just looking at QB a key area talked about in the draft Jake Delhomme took the panthers to the super bowl wasnt drafted by them, Matt Hasselbeck was in Green Bay, Brad Johnson took the bucs to the superbowl and he started life where he is now with the Vikings .

The point is there is always more than one way to field a competitive team and those who live throught the mantra of draft draft draft have to live with the consiquence and be prepared to wait 3-4 years to see thier draft classes pan out .

That sums up my, and many other people's, feelings perfectly. The draft isn't the end all, be all answer to everything. We should just lock the thread now because that was a great post...because I agreed with it, haha

[PhxRedSkin]

The draft will always be a crap shoot. No one can blame any team for taking a Heisman winner(Desmond). They just always seem to be busts. We'll all see where Reggie ends up....However, how can we complain at this moment? Cooley, Taylor, and Rogers(already) are household names. Not bad in my opinion. McCune and Broughton may become household sooner than later. Btw how about the Moss/Coles trade for free agency!
Cowpunks will be kicked all around sunday! GO SKINS!