Obama Care

[FRPLG]

over the mountain

What Joe said.^^

The problem to me with our system is not really lack of access. Nobody in this country should have a lack of access. The problem is cost cost cost cost cost. On one hand it COSTS way too much for anybody except the very rich to pay for out of pocket. On the other it is a very specialized industry that is never going to be "cheap". Does it cost too much? Yeah. Will it ever get cheap enough that $150 a month for insurance is reasonable? I very highly doubt it. Obamacare or whatever we want to call it didn't do much at all to really fix the fundamental problem of cost. Fixing malpractice won't either. There are other reasons it cost so much. Some of them can be fixed and some can't.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

over the mountain

What Joe said.^^

The problem to me with our system is not really lack of access. Nobody in this country should have a lack of access. The problem is cost cost cost cost cost. On one hand it COSTS way too much for anybody except the very rich to pay for out of pocket. On the other it is a very specialized industry that is never going to be "cheap". Does it cost too much? Yeah. Will it ever get cheap enough that $150 a month for insurance is reasonable? I very highly doubt it. Obamacare or whatever we want to call it didn't do much at all to really fix the fundamental problem of cost. Fixing malpractice won't either. There are other reasons it cost so much. Some of them can be fixed and some can't.

So you think my buddy who pays $109,000 for malpractice does not take that into his pricing when he does a surgury. I wonder how many he has to do just to pay that bill or how much is tacked on to each bill.

[saden1]

It can be affordable it's just that our system is structured for profit. It's a system that encourages having the latest gizmos at the hospital instead of being patient care centric. As long as health care is an essential services that is monopolized in this county it will continue to cost more.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by saden1

It can be affordable it's just that our system is structured for profit. It's a system that encourages having the latest gizmos at the hospital instead of being patient care centric. As long as health care is an essential services that is monopolized in this county it will continue to cost more.

So your having a stroke do you want to go to the hospital with all the latest gizmo's or the one that has not up dated their equipment in 15 yrs so they can keep cost down?LOL

The only way to really save any money here on health care is to limit procedures and to have those death panels. Its the sad fact no one will talk about but we pump way to much money into keeping grand dad alive another month or so. Or treating an 85 yr old man for cancer who already is dying of heart conditions. At some point we need to pull the plug.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by firstdown

So your having a stroke do you want to go to the hospital with all the latest gizmo's or the one that has not up dated their equipment in 15 yrs so they can keep cost down?LOL

The only way to really save any money here on health care is to limit procedures and to have those death panels. Its the sad fact no one will talk about but we pump way to much money into keeping grand dad alive another month or so. Or treating an 85 yr old man for cancer who already is dying of heart conditions. At some point we need to pull the plug.

I want to be like those countries whose people live longer and their health care cost is a lot less than ours not some old break away USSR country. I hope that makes sense.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by saden1

I want to be like those countries whose people live longer and their health care cost is a lot less than ours not some old break away USSR country. I hope that makes sense.

Our issue with how long people live is more of a life style choices then health care. We are the fattest country in the world by 6% over the next country. You can have all the best medical services in the world but they cannot save people from them self. That stat there alone increases our cost and causes people to die younger. Its not as simple as you make it sound.

Obesity statistics - countries compared - NationMaster

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by firstdown

So your having a stroke do you want to go to the hospital with all the latest gizmo's or the one that has not up dated their equipment in 15 yrs so they can keep cost down?LOL

The only way to really save any money here on health care is to limit procedures and to have those death panels. Its the sad fact no one will talk about but we pump way to much money into keeping grand dad alive another month or so. Or treating an 85 yr old man for cancer who already is dying of heart conditions. At some point we need to pull the plug.

Sounds pretty simple when you say it, but the righteousness of it may prove somewhat more illusive....like abortion?

[JoeRedskin]

Of course he does, but FRPLG's point (I think) is that it is not malpractice issues alone that are the issue. I would go further that it's really impossible to fix malpractice issues without revamping the entire system.

[over the mountain]

At JHU right now there are doctors who read X rays. It takes about a min to read an x ray. The cost to each patient or their insurance co for the 1 min of service? over $100.

If this doctor reads 10 x rays in an hour, the hospital has billed well over $1,000 for 10 mins of work.

But yeah, lets **** the person who works and makes just enough to not be eligible for medicaid but doesnt make enough to afford priv health care.

There is a very real and large gap of this country's population that falls into this category. they are usually 20 somethings, struggling to pay off college loans, still on the low spectrum of the pay scale and cant afford to spend 200 bucks a month on health insurance. these are the good hard working people of the country.

they will eventually raise their status to a point were they can afford health care but for now and tomorrow, they have to hope they dont suffer a serious injury. if they do suffer a serious injury, they have a 12k debt that closes alil further their window of future financial stability.

They way some of you all talk and opine about things, makes me think you've been livin the good life too long and forgot what it was like to truly struggle to make ends meet. there is a segment of our population that is in a catch-22 right now. to broke to buy insurnace, but since you work a 9-5 you cant qualify for free health care.

The real poor get free everything.
The rich can afford everything.
The people who make 25-35k a year, get screwed until their broke or die trying to get rich.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

At JHU right now there are doctors who read X rays. It takes about a min to read an x ray. The cost to each patient or their insurance co for the 1 min of service? over $100.

If this doctor reads 10 x rays in an hour, the hospital has billed well over $1,000 for 10 mins of work.

But yeah, lets **** the person who works and makes just enough to not be eligible for medicaid but doesnt make enough to afford priv health care.

There is a very real and large gap of this country's population that falls into this category. they are usually 20 somethings, struggling to pay off college loans, still on the low spectrum of the pay scale and cant afford to spend 200 bucks a month on health insurance. these are the good hard working people of the country.

they will eventually raise their status to a point were they can afford health care but for now and tomorrow, they have to hope they dont suffer a serious injury. if they do suffer a serious injury, they have a 12k debt that closes alil further their window of future financial stability.

They way some of you all talk and opine about things, makes me think you've been livin the good life too long and forgot what it was like to truly struggle to make ends meet. there is a segment of our population that is in a catch-22 right now. to broke to buy insurnace, but since you work a 9-5 you cant qualify for free health care.

The real poor get free everything.
The rich can afford everything.
The people who make 25-35k a year, get screwed until their broke or die trying to get rich.

I haven't forgot. I was there and I had a pre-existing condition. I signed up during an HMO open enrollment and paid through the nose. Had to forego a lot of stuff (I ate Ramen noodles from about 25-30), but did what I had to do. So sorry - I hear you that it's tough. Made it through w/out requiring any (almost any) real insurance stuff but paid in the 150-200 range/mo in the 80's and early 90's. So please don't tell me I got no concept of the issue.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

At JHU right now there are doctors who read X rays. It takes about a min to read an x ray. The cost to each patient or their insurance co for the 1 min of service? over $100.

If this doctor reads 10 x rays in an hour, the hospital has billed well over $1,000 for 10 mins of work.

But yeah, lets **** the person who works and makes just enough to not be eligible for medicaid but doesnt make enough to afford priv health care.

There is a very real and large gap of this country's population that falls into this category. they are usually 20 somethings, struggling to pay off college loans, still on the low spectrum of the pay scale and cant afford to spend 200 bucks a month on health insurance. these are the good hard working people of the country.

they will eventually raise their status to a point were they can afford health care but for now and tomorrow, they have to hope they dont suffer a serious injury. if they do suffer a serious injury, they have a 12k debt that closes alil further their window of future financial stability.

They way some of you all talk and opine about things, makes me think you've been livin the good life too long and forgot what it was like to truly struggle to make ends meet. there is a segment of our population that is in a catch-22 right now. to broke to buy insurnace, but since you work a 9-5 you cant qualify for free health care.

The real poor get free everything.
The rich can afford everything.
The people who make 25-35k a year, get screwed until their broke or die trying to get rich.

Sr. I worked for next to nothing as a single parent so I could get the training and skills to do what I'm doing today. Never once did I turn to the goverment for any handouts. I washed and iron my own shirts and we did bag lunches for 5 yrs. I know what its like so lets not play that card.

As for doctors. I have two friend that are doctors and it takes years of hard work before they make any money at all. Today both make silly money but they both work their asses off. I'd say they are the two hardest workong people I know. One of them has been working 7 day weeks for the past two years because he cannot find another partner he can trust his patients too.

I'd also say someone making 25-35 a year cab afford health care unless maybe they have a health issue. My daughter lives on her own works part time and is going to school and finds $125 a month for health ins. While I agree some cannot afford coverage I beliave many have their priorties mixed up. I bet many of the uninsured have cell phone, cable, internet, etc...

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Sr. I worked for next to nothing as a single parent so I could get the training and skills to do what I'm doing today. Never once did I turn to the goverment for any handouts. I washed and iron my own shirts and we did bag lunches for 5 yrs. I know what its like so lets not play that card.

As for doctors. I have two friend that are doctors and it takes years of hard work before they make any money at all. Today both make silly money but they both work their asses off. I'd say they are the two hardest workong people I know. One of them has been working 7 day weeks for the past two years because he cannot find another partner he can trust his patients too.

I'd also say someone making 25-35 a year cab afford health care unless maybe they have a health issue.My daughter lives on her own works part time and is going to school and finds $125 a month for health ins. While I agree some cannot afford coverage I beliave many have their priorties mixed up. I bet many of the uninsured have cell phone, cable, internet, etc...

Exactly right. Takes me back to the time that I saw that woman paying for her groceries with her food stamps card at the Giant, then a few hours later I see her in 7-11 with a handful of 20's spending it all on lotto. Guarantee you she doesn't have health insurance. But don't tell me you can't afford it.

I did the same thing as your daughter. I've been paying my own health insurance for 10 years now (since I was 22). I hardly had any money while I was in school, but I still found a way. Often times I'd just pick up an extra shift waiting tables. You have to do whatever it takes.

One time back then I told my Dad I couldn't afford health insurance. His response? "You can't afford NOT to have health insurance."

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by GMScud

Exactly right. Takes me back to the time that I saw that woman paying for her groceries with her food stamps card at the Giant, then a few hours later I see her in 7-11 with a handful of 20's spending it all on lotto. Guarantee you she doesn't have health insurance. But don't tell me you can't afford it.

I did the same thing as your daughter. I've been paying my own health insurance for 10 years now (since I was 22). I hardly had any money while I was in school, but I still found a way. Often times I'd just pick up an extra shift waiting tables. You have to do whatever it takes.

One time back then I told my Dad I couldn't afford health insurance. His response? "You can't afford NOT to have health insurance."

When I was 16 I worked for a super market in a somewhat poor section of town. I would watch as people would buy their food with food stamps then I load them into their new car. I worked at this store for 3 summers so I got to know the customers and I can tell you these are not people just down on their luck its a way of life.

Side Note:
So they pass the law so parents can add their kids to their policy. I figured I'd get a price to see if it would be cheaper to add my daughter to our policy. I call the insurance co. and they said I have to wait 5 months until our enrollment period. Great law.

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

At JHU right now there are doctors who read X rays. It takes about a min to read an x ray. The cost to each patient or their insurance co for the 1 min of service? over $100.

If this doctor reads 10 x rays in an hour, the hospital has billed well over $1,000 for 10 mins of work.

But yeah, lets **** the person who works and makes just enough to not be eligible for medicaid but doesnt make enough to afford priv health care.

There is a very real and large gap of this country's population that falls into this category. they are usually 20 somethings, struggling to pay off college loans, still on the low spectrum of the pay scale and cant afford to spend 200 bucks a month on health insurance. these are the good hard working people of the country.

they will eventually raise their status to a point were they can afford health care but for now and tomorrow, they have to hope they dont suffer a serious injury. if they do suffer a serious injury, they have a 12k debt that closes alil further their window of future financial stability.

They way some of you all talk and opine about things, makes me think you've been livin the good life too long and forgot what it was like to truly struggle to make ends meet. there is a segment of our population that is in a catch-22 right now. to broke to buy insurnace, but since you work a 9-5 you cant qualify for free health care.

The real poor get free everything.
The rich can afford everything.
The people who make 25-35k a year, get screwed until their broke or die trying to get rich.

With regards to doctors charging an insurance co. 100 dollars for a x ray viewing whats so bad about that? That’s what they charge because that’s what doctors and insurance co. have generally agreed upon as a fair price. If there were doctors that were willing to sit in a cubical all day and review xrays for 10 bucks and do 60 an hour and make lots of money but hate their existence then great, but I don’t think there are.

Very few people who make 25-35k a year cannot afford health insurance at 200 per month. Its the 15% tax bracket at that level. If you have a kid you probably have trouble but you are getting TONS of entitlements at that level. Unless you live in Georgetown or NYC, or San Fran or somewhere else real expensive then you might have trouble. There are very few jobs that require you to live in certain municipals and also have low pay. This is all about life style choices, nothing more. There is healthcare service available for people in this country who need it, but truly cant afford it. The problem is people also need to live in a fun part of town, have cable, leased cars, cell phones, nice clothes, eat out 3x a week, go to bars on the weekend, have a macbook, and have all sorts of nice shit. And if youre a 20-35 male you don’t really need healthcare coverage as much as you think you need all the stuff above, so you choose not to get it.

[mlmpetert]

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