Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?

[Schneed10]

He... is... right!!!

Kirk is good, not great. I want him signed, but I acknowledge I don’t think he will win a Super Bowl.

[FrenchSkin]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

He... is... right!!!

Kirk is good, not great. I want him signed, but I acknowledge I don’t think he will win a Super Bowl.

Maybe he's right. That wasn't my point. Anyway the irony is we are blowing it way out of proportion of what it is AND of what I thought it meant... So I'll just let it go and hope this QB situation gets settled quickly so we can go back to talking football !

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

He... is... right!!!

Kirk is good, not great. I want him signed, but I acknowledge I don’t think he will win a Super Bowl.

I feel that way too. I think you can win a title with him, not because of him.

[irish]

Originally Posted by EARTHQUAKE2689

I feel that way too. I think you can win a title with him, not because of him.

But that's the case with any QB. Trading Brady to the Browns doesn't suddenly make them a Super Bowl favorite. Football is a dependent sport and no position is more dependent that QB.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by irish

But that's the case with any QB. Trading Brady to the Browns doesn't suddenly make them a Super Bowl favorite. Football is a dependent sport and no position is more dependent that QB.

Pretty much this...But you need to complement him either in a system that exploits his strengths or surround with players that will elevate him.

I truly believe if we resign Cousins and then focus on a building Running game we are extremely competitive for the NFC East and in the discussion of NFC crown.

Things change extremely quick in the NFL. Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers...There only 2 elite QB in the game meaning everyone has flaws....Cam, Russell Wilson, Matt Ryan, Big Ben,...flawed flawed flawed flawed.

[irish]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Pretty much this...But you need to complement him either in a system that exploits his strengths or surround with players that will elevate him.

I truly believe if we resign Cousins and then focus on a building Running game we are extremely competitive for the NFC East and in the discussion of NFC crown.

Things change extremely quick in the NFL. Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers...There only 2 elite QB in the game meaning everyone has flaws....Cam, Russell Wilson, Matt Ryan, Big Ben,...flawed flawed flawed flawed.

Agree and in addition to complimentary strengths on offense a team also needs a solid defense. Dan Marino had loads of complimentary players on offense but they had to score a bunch of points to stay in games because the D gave up a lot of points.

[Schneed10]

QB is definitely a dependent position and I think Cousins has been helped by the talent around him in our offense. I think there are a lot of QBs that can do a lot of what Cousins has done in our offense.

We have an excellent - excellent - pass protecting line when it's healthy. This year it obviously wasn't healthy and Cousins took the 6th most sacks in the league. But otherwise it's been good.

But if you put Case Keenum in this situation, I think he could do a lot of the same stuff.
He's got the same quick release as Cousins and the same brainy approach to quickly reading a defense and identifying the open man. To be fair to Cousins he was under pressure a lot this year and still made a lot of plays. The one in Dallas where he hit Crowder while falling on his ass comes to mind as a pretty impressive one.

So Cousins can elevate you a little beyond what your protection provides you, but it's important to keep in perspective that it's not by all that much. That's why we all come to the conclusion that you can win with him, but not because of him.

[irish]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

QB is definitely a dependent position and I think Cousins has been helped by the talent around him in our offense. I think there are a lot of QBs that can do a lot of what Cousins has done in our offense.

We have an excellent - excellent - pass protecting line when it's healthy. This year it obviously wasn't healthy and Cousins took the 6th most sacks in the league. But otherwise it's been good.

But if you put Case Keenum in this situation, I think he could do a lot of the same stuff.
He's got the same quick release as Cousins and the same brainy approach to quickly reading a defense and identifying the open man. To be fair to Cousins he was under pressure a lot this year and still made a lot of plays. The one in Dallas where he hit Crowder while falling on his ass comes to mind as a pretty impressive one.

So Cousins can elevate you a little beyond what your protection provides you, but it's important to keep in perspective that it's not by all that much. That's why we all come to the conclusion that you can win with him, but not because of him.

Other than Brady and Rodgers what QBs do team win because of? The answer is none.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by irish

Other than Brady and Rodgers what QBs do team win because of? The answer is none.

I'd add Wentz and Russell Wilson to the "because of" list.

But don't oversimplify, it's not black and while like these QBs you win "because of", and these you win "with".

Some create a ton of plays on their own, some create some on their own, some create a little on their own, and some create none on their own.

Like Roethlisberger isn't on the level of Brady Rodgers and Wentz in my mind but I'd gladly take him over Cousins any day. When you're that big and can extend plays it adds a lot of value. But yeah he's not going to do it on his own, he needs Antonio Brown and that line and LeVeon.

Cousins is good and we should try to retain him but we need to keep in perspective that his ceiling is probably a Matt Ryan career. If everything breaks right on the team around him, you can succeed.

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by irish

Other than Brady and Rodgers what QBs do team win because of? The answer is none.

This is pretty much true, there is only a few ELITE guys

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

This is pretty much true, there is only a few ELITE guys

If you like a black and white world, I guess

[Chico23231]

Wentz is good, but he benefited for the 3rd highest rushing offense in the league and a defense mightly improved from Jim Schwartz.

Not taking away from Wentz, but he got a TON of help.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Wentz is good, but he benefited for the 3rd highest rushing offense in the league and a defense mightly improved from Jim Schwartz.

Not taking away from Wentz, but he got a TON of help.

Look at the 3rd down conversion rate, it's ridiculous. Dude was incredible on those. Extends the play and makes it where there normally is no play to be made.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Look at the 3rd down conversion rate, it's ridiculous. Dude was incredible on those. Extends the play and makes it where there normally is no play to be made.

He's only gonna get better which is scary. He reminds me of Big Ben.

But the extending plays kinda ended his season.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

He's only gonna get better which is scary. He reminds me of Big Ben.

But the extending plays kinda ended his season.

Yeah it did, but he's big like Ben. He'll be able to sustain pretty well in those circumstances. Don't see it going like RGIII where he just can't stay healthy.