Grade Rocky McIntosh

[724Skinsfan]

There are enough examples of teams that won by way of FA aquisitions, good luck and good drafting as there are teams that lose year in and year out due to FA aquisitions, bad luck and poor drafting. The 3 keys to building championship teams is coaching, chemistry and uhhh...something else that starts with a "c".

[D'BOYZ]

Originally Posted by PSUSkinsFan21

Last I checked, neither Philly nor Denver have won a super bowl any time recently (or at least not since the Elway years). And with their phenominal "base" players, the Eagles ended up last in the NFC East last year?

Philly hasn't won a SB but wen't to 4 consecutive championships games i nthe past 5 years tahts a championship caliber team... and tell me the last time Denver had a mediocare team you know a team that went 5 -11 like ours has thats a championship caliber team a team that's allways is competing and has a posibility to go for the superbowl.

[PorterHouse]

I definately have faith in our staff that they made the right decision on him. Its just not what I would have done in that situation. We paid too much for him.

[Hog1]

And Bledsoe? Bledsoe? Bledsoe stepped out of the shower this morning and got sacked again by Phillip Daniels.
THAT's HUMOR!!

But seriously Dboys, you cannot be holding out Denver, NE, Philly as the model teams of the new Millenium??????? Only one of the three is even in the same league (from as accomplishment standpoint)as the SKINS under JOE. Incidently that includes Parcells. That having been said, why would we be inclined to follow that example? Joe is not afraid to be the innovator. Don't be afraid to Lead!

[D'BOYZ]

Originally Posted by Hog1

And Bledsoe? Bledsoe? Bledsoe stepped out of the shower this morning and got sacked again by Phillip Daniels.
THAT's HUMOR!!

But seriously Dboys, you cannot be holding out Denver, NE, Philly as the model teams of the new Millenium??????? Only one of the three is even in the same league (from as accomplishment standpoint)as the SKINS under JOE. Incidently that includes Parcells. That having been said, why would we be inclined to follow that example? Joe is not afraid to be the innovator. Don't be afraid to Lead!

Moving up on the draft giving up future draft pics isn't innovating it has been done for ages and well history speeks for itself just tell me from the past 6 draft tell me all your first day pics how many are still on the team how many are probowlers or have lived to the spot they where drafted. How many are or will be busts you'll see a high percentage of players that didn't turn out to be what you plan that's why having more pics gives you a better chance 2 succed ( also selecting good players but thats another topic).

I agree Joe isn't afraid of innovating and yo usee it with the size and type of receivers his bringing this year but what his doing i nthe draft isn't innovating and has written dissaster all over the place we can talk about it in 4 years when gibbs is no longer in the team.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by D'BOYZ

Moving up on the draft giving up future draft pics isn't innovating it has been done for ages and well history speeks for itself just tell me from the past 6 draft tell me all your first day pics how many are still on the team how many are probowlers or have lived to the spot they where drafted. How many are or will be busts you'll see a high percentage of players that didn't turn out to be what you plan that's why having more pics gives you a better chance 2 succed ( also selecting good players but thats another topic).

I agree Joe isn't afraid of innovating and yo usee it with the size and type of receivers his bringing this year but what his doing i nthe draft isn't innovating and has written dissaster all over the place we can talk about it in 4 years when gibbs is no longer in the team.

Gibbs is defining his own style of personnel decisions. Because of his style, nfl experts cannot evaluate the redskins draft on its own anymore, they must evaluate the entire offseason as a whole without separating any part of it (draft, free agency, trades, cuts, salary cap based decisions, coaching staff additions/changes). All of these areas of personnel decision-making affects each other as a whole. He is an innovator in these decisions, this approach, and (don't forget) the role and responsibilities he has set for himself as head coach and team president.

I don't want to talk about how he is doing when he is gone, that doesn't make any sense to me; let's discuss his ability and performance now. How he has improved the team and created stability with an openness to positive change. I will not forget the past decade or so without gibbs, and to me this is the best position the redskins have been in, in years. And the organization is still moving upward. To me, there is nothing to support that the draft for the redskins has disaster "written all over" it; and it seems to be just wishful thinking (and hating). Redskins last year: 10-6, playoff birth, won 6 games in a row (including playoff win)... and we have upgraded the team (especially in positions of need). I don't think that's a recipe for disaster.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

Gibbs is defining his own style of personnel decisions. Because of his style, nfl experts cannot evaluate the redskins draft on its own anymore, they must evaluate the entire offseason as a whole without separating any part of it (draft, free agency, trades, cuts, salary cap based decisions, coaching staff additions/changes). All of these areas of personnel decision-making affects each other as a whole. He is an innovator in these decisions, this approach, and (don't forget) the role and responsibilities he has set for himself as head coach and team president.

I don't want to talk about how he is doing when he is gone, that doesn't make any sense to me; let's discuss his ability and performance now. How he has improved the team and created stability with an openness to positive change. I will not forget the past decade or so without gibbs, and to me this is the best position the redskins have been in, in years. And the organization is still moving upward. To me, there is nothing to support that the draft for the redskins has disaster "written all over" it; and it seems to be just wishful thinking (and hating). Redskins last year: 10-6, playoff birth, won 6 games in a row (including playoff win)... and we have upgraded the team (especially in positions of need). I don't think that's a recipe for disaster.

In a nutshell DBOYS, WP has pretty much nailed it! I would add that you can take all the stats you wish, and you can apply that to the rank and fine with relative success, because most teams pretty much do the same thing as all the other teams lacking original any thought. That is not who you are talking about here. You can speculate as to the draft being a total disaster or whatever nonsense was being touted. I personally have to go with the creds..........who's got em'??????????? You..............Pine riders like like idiot Sean Salisbury.......or 3-time Super Bowl winning coach???? Easy choice.
Additionally, one of the X-players I do have respect for, as he has seen success, like Ron Jaworski, stated on interview when asked about things, draft "the Skins have had a fantastic off season". "The NFC East is scared to death with what they are doing in DC". You might be thinking.............the Boy's aint' afraid. They should be after the strummin' they had last season with Joe's team. Finally, If you need an avalanche of meaningless stats compiled by 20k a year drones, to give you a comfort zone, so be it! I'll go with results delivered! Joe goes his way and delivers! History always repeats itself!!!!!!!

[724Skinsfan]

Originally Posted by Hog1

In a nutshell DBOYS, WP has pretty much nailed it! I would add that you can take all the stats you wish, and you can apply that to the rank and fine with relative success, because most teams pretty much do the same thing as all the other teams lacking original any thought. That is not who you are talking about here. You can speculate as to the draft being a total disaster or whatever nonsense was being touted. I personally have to go with the creds..........who's got em'??????????? You..............Pine riders like like idiot Sean Salisbury.......or 3-time Super Bowl winning coach???? Easy choice.
Additionally, one of the X-players I do have respect for, as he has seen success, like Ron Jaworski, stated on interview when asked about things, draft "the Skins have had a fantastic off season". "The NFC East is scared to death with what they are doing in DC". You might be thinking.............the Boy's aint' afraid. They should be after the strummin' they had last season with Joe's team. Finally, If you need an avalanche of meaningless stats compiled by 20k a year drones, to give you a comfort zone, so be it! I'll go with results delivered! Joe goes his way and delivers! History always repeats itself!!!!!!!

As Keanu Reeves once said...."whoa"

[D'BOYZ]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

Gibbs is defining his own style of personnel decisions. Because of his style, nfl experts cannot evaluate the redskins draft on its own anymore, they must evaluate the entire offseason as a whole without separating any part of it (draft, free agency, trades, cuts, salary cap based decisions, coaching staff additions/changes). All of these areas of personnel decision-making affects each other as a whole. He is an innovator in these decisions, this approach, and (don't forget) the role and responsibilities he has set for himself as head coach and team president.

Look first I don't disagree with you on what gibbs has brought to your team he has made great personel desicion has brought via FA excellent players that fit his style and has made your team competitive and hungry again.

Also your team has brought a new way of cap manegemnt to he NFL that has let them bring the player they want each year withou mayor consecuences that also is true.

but in thsi case you have to saparete what he has been doing in FA and the draft because they haven't merge yet if let's say gibbs had traded this year second round pick to the Jets for moss instead of coles then yes there would be a relation. but no the only way to compare and evaluate his draft moves is based only on the draft and hsi draft pics because he has only traded draft pics he hasn't merge the 2 sides of the bussnises get FA/ trades/ draft.

offcourse your FA pics affect what would you do i nthe draft as it does with every other team like Archuleta took a SS need aways from the draft but it doesn't determine the moves you make during the draft.

Like the 1 you did and the reason that I call these type of moves (giving away future high picks) risky or a disaster waiting to happen is because of history look 2 years ago is that easy Bufallo traded with us their low 2nd round a 5th and last year first for our 22 in the first round. How did it tur out? well got JJ, Spears and Ryan (an eventually Bledose because he was released because of JP losman) and Buffalo only got Losman 2 years later JJ , Spears and Bledsoe are starters in our team and Losman is a backup and has been almost been shown the door with a lot of speculation from the Bills that want to trade him.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by D'BOYZ

Look first I don't disagree with you on what gibbs has brought to your team he has made great personel desicion has brought via FA excellent players that fit his style and has made your team competitive and hungry again.

Also your team has brought a new way of cap manegemnt to he NFL that has let them bring the player they want each year withou mayor consecuences that also is true.

but in thsi case you have to saparete what he has been doing in FA and the draft because they haven't merge yet if let's say gibbs had traded this year second round pick to the Jets for moss instead of coles then yes there would be a relation. but no the only way to compare and evaluate his draft moves is based only on the draft and hsi draft pics because he has only traded draft pics he hasn't merge the 2 sides of the bussnises get FA/ trades/ draft.

offcourse your FA pics affect what would you do i nthe draft as it does with every other team like Archuleta took a SS need aways from the draft but it doesn't determine the moves you make during the draft.

Like the 1 you did and the reason that I call these type of moves (giving away future high picks) risky or a disaster waiting to happen is because of history look 2 years ago is that easy Bufallo traded with us their low 2nd round a 5th and last year first for our 22 in the first round. How did it tur out? well got JJ, Spears and Ryan (an eventually Bledose because he was released because of JP losman) and Buffalo only got Losman 2 years later JJ , Spears and Bledsoe are starters in our team and Losman is a backup and has been almost been shown the door with a lot of speculation from the Bills that want to trade him.

I think that's where gibbs's approach to the offseason and personnel differs from traditional thinking. I think a lot of personnel evaluators have a tunnel-visioned approach to the draft and free agency (and other personnel-based areas), but it seems that gibbs looks at it from an overall team standpoint. How all of it affects each other. I can't get a hold of your sentence/statement of how fa affects the draft, but doesn't determine the moves you make during the draft. What do you mean by "affects" and "doesn't determine" ? Isn't this a little contradictory ?

I still don't understand how this draft will become a disaster for the redskins. How ? I don't see how it would be the possible end of the redskins as we know it (like a hurricane katrina, that's what I see a disaster as). Of course the draft is a risk, that's why gibbs prefers getting players he is sold on in fa and moving up in the draft to get a guy that they have a good feeling for. In this way, it is less of a risk (of wasting your investment). But to me, this is in no way a risk that would bring disaster to the redskins. A risk that would bring possible disaster to a team would be to sign a player named Terrell Owens. Now that has disaster written all over it.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by D'BOYZ

I agree Joe isn't afraid of innovating and yo usee it with the size and type of receivers his bringing this year but what his doing i nthe draft isn't innovating and has written dissaster all over the place we can talk about it in 4 years when gibbs is no longer in the team.

D'BOYZ, part of the reason that I responded initially was the last part of the quote above. So saying this, I ask you: "What is gibbs doing in the draft or otherwise going to be disaster and be that bad that we would revisit the subject in 4 years ?"

[That Guy]

i don't know how you compare a 6th round pick to hank aaron, pete rose or mickey mantle...

[PSUSkinsFan21]

Originally Posted by That Guy

i don't know how you compare a 6th round pick to hank aaron, pete rose or mickey mantle...

Go easy on him, he's a Cowboys fan, so by definition he doesn't really know what he's talking about.......he only thinks he does. He's probably still just bitter over the fact that his team lost to the Skins twice last year and couldn't make the playoffs.



Off topic? Yep, but I still enjoyed it.

[D'BOYZ]

Originally Posted by That Guy

i don't know how you compare a 6th round pick to hank aaron, pete rose or mickey mantle...

Man i just gave names I didn'tput value on them of course they aren't worth a six.... just names to express a point.

[PSUSkinsFan21]

Originally Posted by D'BOYZ

Man i just gave names I didn'tput value on them of course they aren't worth a six.... just names to express a point.

Well the point that gets expressed by using Hall of Famers is that the skins somehow gave up 3 unbelievable players for just 1. That's not the case and it's disingenuous for you to now backtrack and not admit that your analogy was flawed. If you really only wanted to express your point with numbers, why not use hypotheticals like X, Y, Z? Particularly if you're going to use a baseball card analogy, the names of the players you choose are the only thing that governs the value of the cards (i.e. the picks).