Mort on the Portis trade rumors

[FRPLG]

I keep hearing about 'Joe Gibbs style' running. Might I remind everyone that JG doesn't run the offense anymore. Saunders does. Remember all of our moaning and groaning because AS basically implmented a whole new offense? I would suggest that whether Portis is a 'Joe Gibbs style' back isn't any more relevant than whether Ethan Albright is a 'Joe Gibbs style' WR.

[JDALY27]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

I keep hearing about 'Joe Gibbs style' running. Might I remind everyone that JG doesn't run the offense anymore. Saunders does. Remember all of our moaning and groaning because AS basically implmented a whole new offense? I would suggest that whether Portis is a 'Joe Gibbs style' back isn't any more relevant than whether Ethan Albright is a 'Joe Gibbs style' WR.

THIS IS STILL A JOE GIBBS STYLE OFFENSE. AS found out the hard way who is really calling the shots when push came to shove last year. We will see Gibbs very involved with this years offense.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by FRLPG

I am nothing if not diplomatic.

I have also been where you are and you are just going to end up wanting to punch your monitor. Sometimes people won't objectively listen. They believe what they believe no matter what. They can be convinced that 2+2=5 in the face of incontravertable evidence that it in fact equals 4.

Yes. Been there done that, doesn't change the frustration level when they, as Stu_nna does, change their arguement.

Originally Posted by stu_nna

tough back? Please, we got ripped off by getting him, he gets paid like a top back but never produces like one. He speaks out against the team's coaching, decision making, His biggest upside is his football savy, and that's not really sayin much. This year he needs to put up some decent football numbers, and minimize the complaints, or get out of town. Maybe find a job with the NFL network or something.

Two points which he now denies are relevant to CP's current status with the team and the expectations that the team should have of him this year.

Oh, and now he asserts toughness and past production were never his point - IF THEY WEREN'T YOUR POINT OR SUPPORT FOR IT, WHY STATE THEM??

2+2=5 and Clinton Portis is double-plus-ungood.

[stu_nna]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

I am nothing if not diplomatic.

I have also been where you are and you are just going to end up wanting to punch your monitor. Sometimes people won't objectively listen. They believe what they believe no matter what. They can be convinced that 2+2=5 in the face of incontravertable evidence that it in fact equals 4.

you must have me seriously mistaken. I've listen and read everyone's response to my view on Clinton. I've also considered could his numbers be replaced with another player. He is not a bad back, but we have a history of releasing or trading players who speak out against the machine to much. That doesn't make me insane, stupid or any other name that people can think of for lack of a better way to express themselves.
The circumstances when he says he goes to one coach for the running plays, and another for the passing plays, and airs out dirty laundry out to the public is what gets me. Not his toughness, or his numbers and production. These things have to balance out. 2+2=4, i agree, so i haven't fallen into these numbers arguements.
If 50% of the backs in this leauge can get 1000-1300 yards in a season then the bar has been raised. So have my expectations...

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by stu_nna

Nothing to yield, at the end of the day im still gonna want him to play and keep his mouth closed, though i think im gonna yield arguing against those who keep talking about production as if that were ever the arguement

Then what is the argument?

[JDALY27]

Originally Posted by stu_nna

you must have me seriously mistaken. I've listen and read everyone's response to my view on Clinton. I've also considered could his numbers be replaced with another player. He is not a bad back, but we have a history of releasing or trading players who speak out against the machine to much. That doesn't make me insane, stupid or any other name that people can think of for lack of a better way to express themselves.
The circumstances when he says he goes to one coach for the running plays, and another for the passing plays, and airs out dirty laundry out to the public is what gets me. Not his toughness, or his numbers and production. These things have to balance out. 2+2=4, i agree, so i haven't fallen into these numbers arguements.
If 50% of the backs in this leauge can get 1000-1300 yards in a season then the bar has been raised. So have my expectations...

Seems like you think he talks too much! Its all about his performance on the field. Not a bad back? He's a great back! Just needs to stay healthy or we're not going to be as explosive. CP is the single season rushing leader for the Washinton Redskins, all time......

[stu_nna]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Then what is the argument?

whether his offield antics, warranted keeping him around, but i gaffed with the production comment earlier....sigh

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by stu_nna

whether his offield antics, warranted keeping him around, but i gaffed with the production comment earlier....sigh

I mean this isn't PacMan Jones we're talking about.

Tell you what listen to this interview and you'll see how yes he does express frustrations but he does defend Gibbs. And keep in mind that Gibbs is making some changes to offseason training based on what CP and others have expressed.

SportsTalk 980 - Washington, DC

(scroll down to the CP interview on 1-02-07)

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by stu_nna

I had just started to argue against what he did two years ago, but alas ive changed my mind. Rather than tell me what he's done, address the points that i made. He played well in our run to the playoffs. I consent that, this is his fourth year with us and i want to see less tv and radio drama and more leadership on the field. If infighting is his thing then he'd be better served elsewhere

Well, the post that I quoted you on said you wanted more production from him.

As for his off field antics, I find them amusing. His arguments with Brandon Lloyd are apparently a microcosm of the entire locker room. From what I've read Lloyd alienated everyone down to equipment managers. As for bitching about coaching...he's gone both ways and I don't really think he says anything all that inflammatory. "I want the ball more" doesn't exactly get me too riled up...I'm sorry. As for the preseason incident, I don't want him playing in the preseason. LT doesn't, he doesn't need to. There aren't a whole lot of players who do, he got hurt cause he's a competitor who was playing hard regardless of whether it was an exhibition game or not.

Finally, you say Clinton's injuries and fumbles were a problem for you...what the hell would you call Ladell Betts. Last season was the second time in his career he's played 16 games and the first he ever saw a large amout of carries. It was also a contract year...a lot of guys step up then. He also had some HUGE fumbles last season and didn't even reach the # of TD's Clinton threw up in a lot less time. So, if you're arguing for Ladell Betts, I have to disagree with you. I also don't think you make much of a point against Portis.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by stu_nna

you must have me seriously mistaken. I've listen and read everyone's response to my view on Clinton. I've also considered could his numbers be replaced with another player. He is not a bad back, but we have a history of releasing or trading players who speak out against the machine to much. That doesn't make me insane, stupid or any other name that people can think of for lack of a better way to express themselves.
The circumstances when he says he goes to one coach for the running plays, and another for the passing plays, and airs out dirty laundry out to the public is what gets me. Not his toughness, or his numbers and production. These things have to balance out. 2+2=4, i agree, so i haven't fallen into these numbers arguements.
If 50% of the backs in this leauge can get 1000-1300 yards in a season then the bar has been raised. So have my expectations...

1) Let me clarify, the "stupid" and "inane" remarks were commentary on the logic and substance of the respective posts. They were not an attempt to pass judgement on your intelligence or lack thereof.

2) Please tell me which players we have released or traded for "speak[ing] out against the machine too much"?

3) You have high expectations of a RB - well, other than last year, CP has consistently made or exceeded the standards you cite for an elite back (I would suggest that 50% of the backs do NOT exceed 1200 yards/year. Maybe 50% exceed 1000 yards, but 1200 is not nearly that common).

3) I just don't understand your point - CP's past production for us is not relevant, yet his past actions off the field are? Past actions that many see as taking a lead and being a voice for the players.

[stu_nna]

Excellent points from all. I look forward to next years rushing performance, on this one though im staying on the opposite side of the fence. anitcs > performance

[Southpaw]

Originally Posted by JDALY27

We all have to agree that Betts running style is more Joe Gibbs than Portis.

Why do so many people think this is the case when Gibbs doesn't even believe it? Gibbs takes over and gives up the farm to get Portis, and Betts (the tailback that "fits the system better") gets an 11 million dollar extension... And Portis will still be the unquestioned starter next season, in spite of the decent stretch of games Betts had at the end of last season, so where's the logic that Betts' style is more "Joe Gibbs"?

What exactly is Betts running style anyway? A lot of people (even analysts) like to call him a strong downhill runner, but how many strong downhill runners get tackled with one hand on their shirt tail from behind by a cornerback? The one thing that Betts has over Portis is vision and patience, which is good because he's almost completely ineffective if there isn't a gaping hole for him to run through. Betts is basically a fundementally sound tailback that hits the holes he's supposed to hit, as long as they're there. He's a fine change of pace back, and he filled in admirably for Portis last year, but he is nowhere near as talented as CP.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Southpaw

Why do so many people think this is the case when Gibbs doesn't even believe it? Gibbs takes over and gives up the farm to get Portis, and Betts (the tailback that "fits the system better") gets an 11 million dollar extension... And Portis will still be the unquestioned starter next season, in spite of the decent stretch of games Betts had at the end of last season, so where's the logic that Betts' style is more "Joe Gibbs"?

What exactly is Betts running style anyway? A lot of people (even analysts) like to call him a strong downhill runner, but how many strong downhill runners get tackled with one hand on their shirt tail from behind by a cornerback? The one thing that Betts has over Portis is vision and patience, which is good because he's almost completely ineffective if there isn't a gaping hole for him to run through. Betts is basically a fundementally sound tailback that hits the holes he's supposed to hit, as long as they're there. He's a fine change of pace back, and he filled in admirably for Portis last year, but he is nowhere near as talented as CP.

I think

a.) People tend to confuse Betts with Bettis (names sound similar but not necessarily the game)

b.) More patient than Portis is another way of saying slower than Portis

[JDALY27]

Originally Posted by Southpaw

Why do so many people think this is the case when Gibbs doesn't even believe it? Gibbs takes over and gives up the farm to get Portis, and Betts (the tailback that "fits the system better") gets an 11 million dollar extension... And Portis will still be the unquestioned starter next season, in spite of the decent stretch of games Betts had at the end of last season, so where's the logic that Betts' style is more "Joe Gibbs"?

What exactly is Betts running style anyway? A lot of people (even analysts) like to call him a strong downhill runner, but how many strong downhill runners get tackled with one hand on their shirt tail from behind by a cornerback? The one thing that Betts has over Portis is vision and patience, which is good because he's almost completely ineffective if there isn't a gaping hole for him to run through. Betts is basically a fundementally sound tailback that hits the holes he's supposed to hit, as long as they're there. He's a fine change of pace back, and he filled in admirably for Portis last year, but he is nowhere near as talented as CP.

If Portis gets off to a slow start he's riding the pine in 07'. Betts is not as talented but works harder and cares more! He knows that football players are not celebreties, does CP know that?

Betts is a better pass catcher out of the back-field and he returns kickoffs if you need him to, one for a touchdown last year.

Portis is explosive with his blocks and speed, just hope he holds up physically with the surgeries.

[Southpaw]

Originally Posted by JDALY27

If Portis gets off to a slow start he's riding the pine in 07'. Betts is not as talented but works harder and cares more! He knows that football players are not celebreties, does CP know that?

How do you know Betts works harder? And I find it hard to believe that Betts "cares more" when he fumbles in the red zone, and basically chuckles about it on the bench, while the defense tries to clean up the mess he just made.

And I don't even understand the celebrities comment. So one of the knocks on Portis is that he has a personality?