SGG's What's Your Issue Poll

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I had been meaning to talk about this too.

On behalf of all the mods, I want to commend the entire board for allowing us to bring back political discussion and vehemently disagree in a civilized manner.

I hate to say that all the problems we had in the past with political talk was because of just one member, but maybe it was.

The Jinx. Now Lehman hits it in the water.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

On behalf of all the mods, I want to commend the entire board for allowing us to bring back political discussion and vehemently disagree in a civilized manner.

I hate to say that all the problems we had in the past with political talk was because of just one member, but maybe it was.

I second that. I love discussing this kind of stuff in a civil manner with smart people like Smootsmack, Saden, Schneed, Daseal, Hog, and the list goes on and on.

[saden1]

Here is a wonder argument against the whole notion of future potential if you are interested.

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[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by saden1

Here is a wonder argument against the whole notion of future potential if you are interested.

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password: bugmenot

I read through part of it (it's too long, sorry), and I don't agree with the basic premise that there can be any reason "to not have the baby" strong enough to outweigh the reason to let it live.

The only reason strong enough to justify abortion is if the pregnancy has a higher-than-normal chance of killing the mother.

Otherwise, what reason could possibly exist that would outweigh the embryo's nearly-assured future of a life full of freedom and happiness?

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Otherwise, what reason could possibly exist that would outweigh the embryo's nearly-assured future of a life full of freedom and happiness?

By that account every time someone masturbates they are denying at least one sperm a nearly-assured future of fertilizing an egg and a life full of freedom and happiness.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by saden1

By that account every time someone masturbates they are denying at least one sperm a nearly-assured future of fertilizing an egg and a life full of freedom and happiness.

No because a sperm is not human life. It is nothing to the world. It is as important as a rock. Without an egg the sperm is nothing and vice versa. Together they are life.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by saden1

By that account every time someone masturbates they are denying at least one sperm a nearly-assured future of fertilizing an egg and a life full of freedom and happiness.

I'm arguing for nature taking it's course. When the sperm and egg have already met and become an embryo, nature's course would lead to the development and birth of a baby.

Nature also takes its course as I get an urge, grab my Hustler, and run to my private place. Masturbation is natural.

It's not our responsibility to make sure every sperm and every egg get together in this world. It's our responsibility to protect the ones that do get together. We have laws in our country, outlawing things like murder and rape, because we're interested in protecting lives. We don't have any laws that say we are mandated to procreate whenever possible.

[Daseal]

SChneed et all: My stance on abortion certainly includes the mothers right to choose, but that has been covered. You still haven't answered my questions. Would you be willing to up your taxes significantly to help support the extra poverty there is now? I'm not saying every abortion is killing a useless child, not at all. However, I think it's hard to say that poverty in general wouldn't get much worse. We're quickly running out of natural resources and we're using the earth up at an alarming rate.

Everyone says how appalled they are with my statement, but no one can tell me that it's incorrect. Sometime we need to step back and take a slightly less personal look at things. It's not like I'd ever force an abortion on anyone. However, if someone things they're not fit to take care of a child and it's better not for them to bring a kid into the world they can't care for.

As far as tons of people looking to adopt babies. Wrong. Lots of people are looking for white babies. There are tons of children in the United States and elsewhere in foster care, etc that can't find homes.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Daseal

SChneed et all: My stance on abortion certainly includes the mothers right to choose, but that has been covered. You still haven't answered my questions. Would you be willing to up your taxes significantly to help support the extra poverty there is now? I'm not saying every abortion is killing a useless child, not at all. However, I think it's hard to say that poverty in general wouldn't get much worse. We're quickly running out of natural resources and we're using the earth up at an alarming rate.

Everyone says how appalled they are with my statement, but no one can tell me that it's incorrect. Sometime we need to step back and take a slightly less personal look at things. It's not like I'd ever force an abortion on anyone. However, if someone things they're not fit to take care of a child and it's better not for them to bring a kid into the world they can't care for.

As far as tons of people looking to adopt babies. Wrong. Lots of people are looking for white babies. There are tons of children in the United States and elsewhere in foster care, etc that can't find homes.

Actually homie, I did answer your question. Yes I'd be willing to pay the extra $100 or $200 per year to support the ones who will end up on welfare/Medicaid.

In post #64 I said:

And yes, I'd gladly support the "dregs" with increased welfare taxes. Some issues are more important than money, and denying someone the right to a happy life is more important than an extra hundred or two bucks in my pocket each year.

Many kids do end up in foster care, you're right. But does foster care doom 100% of them to an unhappy life? Some still end up finding happiness, and robbing them all of that opportunity to find happiness and love in the world is wrong to me.

Give the poor souls a little credit, some people manage to rise above even the longest odds. At least let them try.

[Schneed10]

Besides, if so many foster children actually thought death would be a better alternative to life, wouldn't most of them be killing themselves?

[Schneed10]

According to this unbiased website, there were 760,000 abortions in 1996 in the United States. That represents only those that were recorded, so only those performed legally. And it was 11 years ago, so there could be more today.

Abortion Statistics - By Age.

So let's assume there are 1,000,000 abortions in the US and do a little math here. Let's say every single one of them required welfare and Medicaid each year, a ridiculous assumption, but let's go with it. Let's assume welfare provides about $10,000 in benefits each year, and Medicaid provides on average about $3000 in benefits. That amounts to $13 billion needed to cover them.

Now, there are about 300 million people living in the US. When you take out those under 18, those over 65 receiving social security, and those without jobs, you're left with something like 150,000,000 taxpaying citizens.

So divide $13 billion by those taxpayers, and you're talking $86 per taxpayer per year. That's $7.22 a month, or $1.67 per week. Hardly a consequential amount of money.

And that's based on the ridiculous notion that every single baby currently being aborted would become complete drains on society.

The taxes are not an issue.

[SmootSmack]

Kinda wild how we've had page after page of debate on abortion, yet only person voted it as an important issue.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Kinda wild how we've had page after page of debate on abortion, yet only person voted it as an important issue.

Yeah, abortion is a good topic to discuss because of the philosophical lines you have to draw to define what life is.

But when it comes down to voting, I'm all about foreign policy and the economy, because I'm more interested in protecting and preserving the lives and livelihood of the 300 million Americans who are already born, compared to the almost 1 million Americans who are aborted each year.

Abortion's a good one to discuss, but I gotta keep my priorities straight; when it comes to my vote I'm almost entirely voting on Iraq and the economy.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Kinda wild how we've had page after page of debate on abortion, yet only person voted it as an important issue.

That is funny, isn't it? I think we just like to argue, that's all.

[saden1]

I voted for it