smokers tax

[MTK]

Originally Posted by firstdown

You have said in earlier threads that you believe global warm is real and we need to do something about it. If you think a high tax will curb people from smoking then we must assume that a high tax on gas will curb consumption. If global warming is that big of a consern then it would make sense to have the higher tax to save the planet v/s taxing cigs which would only save smokers.

Of course global warming is an issue but you can't be serious in thinking cranking up gas prices to discourage people from driving is a realistic solution.

Regardless, let's stick to the original topic. Comparing gas to cigarettes is too much of a stretch to even take seriously.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by firstdown

The other reason I made that point is because people don't have problems with others paying high taxes but when it effects them then they have a problem with the tax and from your past post you made my point.

I don't agree with that. I'm all in favor of paying higher taxes for something if I know where that money is going and if it's for the better good of society in general.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by firstdown

You have said in earlier threads that you believe global warm is real and we need to do something about it. If you think a high tax will curb people from smoking then we must assume that a high tax on gas will curb consumption. If global warming is that big of a consern then it would make sense to have the higher tax to save the planet v/s taxing cigs which would only save smokers.

The other reason I made that point is because people don't have problems with others paying high taxes but when it effects them then they have a problem with the tax and from your past post you made my point.

Well, when gas prices went from around $2 a gallon to around $3.29 a gallon, did that reduce our gas cunsumption?
No it didn't...why? Cause we NEED gas to get around and go to work. Not all of us can car pool or take the public transportation system.
Taxing gas would only hurt us as a country, not help anything.

Some of you are approaching Matty with ideas of taxing gas to fund alternative fuels. 1- that's not feasible since no one has that intention. 2- How about use the "sin taxes" to fund alternative fuels research?

Not to turn this into an alternative fuels thread, but we already have e-85, it's all about letting the oil companies go, and getting the government to agree to make that switch. People are hesitant.

[dmek25]

here we go again

[MTK]

I'm in favor of any sort of "sin tax". Crank up the taxes on everything from booze to cigarettes to gambling. Hell, legalize pot and tax the shit outta that too.

[Hog1]

BOTTOM LINE:
Does anyone feel confident, and comfortable with the Fed regularly exercising it's power to tax..........anything, or to escalate a tax on something so that you can no longer do whatever "it" was?
I do not.
I would like the Fed to account for what it gets now. Would you like to know where your money goes? You never will. Let's face it, this Govt. is FAAAAT!
More tax is not the answer. Less Govt is the answer.
I do not begin to have the confidence in the Fed to support more of our American freedoms being put in jeopardy, to line our politicians pockets.

--Thankyou......thankyou very much

[TheMalcolmConnection]

But people can live without smoking. Fatty or not, food sustains you.

It'll lead to an early grave, but not as early as not eating period.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

But people can live without smoking. Fatty or not, food sustains you.

It'll lead to an early grave, but not as early as not eating period.

exactly.

I will admit eating at McDonalds for every meal won't get you far, but how many people actually do that?
The ones that do, are just as dumb as those that smoke a pack or two a day.

ps- not all the food that fast food joints sell are bad for you.

[FRPLG]

I still fail to understand how cigarettes equate similarly to fast food. Again, fast food in and of itself IS NOT BAD FOR YOU. What is bad for you is the amounts of it you eat. There is not a single thing in fast food that is only destructive. Every ingredient has healthy benefits as much as any other food we eat. It is not the food that is inherently bad. It is our eating too much of it. Cigarettes on the other hand have no positive benefits in any quantity. The only thing they do...the one singular thing... is kill you.

To me the two are not even in the same ballpark. In fact I cannot think of anything legal that is in the same ballpark as cigarettes. Possibly alcohol but there are numerous studies that show some benefits of alcohol consumption in proper quantities.

As far "the betterment of society issue". Our country long ago decided that we should govern consumption and use of certain things. Many drugs are illegal because they are harmful for example. Because of the uniqueness of cigarettes I really don't see taxing them out of existence as a step onto the slippery slope. I just think if we are allowed to make things illegal like drugs then there is no reason cigarettes should be legal. Seeing as they are legal and making them illegal would put major companies out of business I'd prefer that a less direct action be taken and they get taxed into oblivion.

I'ma conservative and firmly believe the government should stay out of my busniess but I don't think the government should stay out of all of my business without exception. Ridding our society of illegal drugs and other products that kill us prematurely seems like a pretty good job for our government to me.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

I still fail to understand how cigarettes equate similarly to fast food. Again, fast food in and of itself IS NOT BAD FOR YOU. What is bad for you is the amounts of it you eat. There is not a single thing in fast food that is only destructive. Every ingredient has healthy benefits as much as any other food we eat. It is not the food that is inherently bad. It is our eating too much of it. Cigarettes on the other hand have no positive benefits in any quantity. The only thing they do...the one singular thing... is kill you.

To me the two are not even in the same ballpark. In fact I cannot think of anything legal that is in the same ballpark as cigarettes. Possibly alcohol but there are numerous studies that show some benefits of alcohol consumption in proper quantities.

As far "the betterment of society issue". Our country long ago decided that we should govern consumption and use of certain things. Many drugs are illegal because they are harmful for example. Because of the uniqueness of cigarettes I really don't see taxing them out of existence as a step onto the slippery slope. I just think if we are allowed to make things illegal like drugs then there is no reason cigarettes should be legal. Seeing as they are legal and making them illegal would put major companies out of business I'd prefer that a less direct action be taken and they get taxed into oblivion.

I'ma conservative and firmly believe the government should stay out of my busniess but I don't think the government should stay out of all of my business without exception. Ridding our society of illegal drugs and other products that kill us prematurely seems like a pretty good job for our government to me.

Good points.
It's called grasping for straws for the sake of an argument.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Good points.
It's called grasping for straws for the sake of an argument.

I think I understand where the point of view comes from because I firnly believe in limited government but I also believe in nuance. This is a very limited but nuanced view I hold. I think nuance is the biggest thing missing in politics today.

[FRPLG]

SGG...do you support the legalization of all drugs?

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

SGG...do you support the legalization of all drugs?

No, but IMHO, the difference between cigarettes and crack is just a tad more significant than the difference between cigarettes and fast food. Moreover, I do support the legalization of some drugs, just not the ones that will make you a raging lunatic (e.g., PCP) or hallucinate and possibly harm others (e.g., LSD).

[saden1]

I believe the context of the discussion is taxing fatty/fast food, not food in general...and by the logic being used here one can argue that you don't NEED fatty food to sustain you. You could do with fruits and veggies and live a healthy and happy life. In any case, according to NIH approximately 440,000 people die from smoking and about 280,000 die from obesity related illness (the latest stats I could find).

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by saden1

I believe the context of the discussion is taxing fatty/fast food, not food in general...and by the logic being used here one can argue that you don't NEED fatty food to sustain you. You could do with fruits and veggies and live a healthy and happy life. In any case, according to NIH approximately 440,000 people die from smoking and about 280,000 die from obesity related illness (the latest stats I could find).

Yes but the context here is whether fatty food is inherently bad. It is not. Cigarettes are inherently bad. There's no realistic argument being made or that can be made that they are unharmful and even healthy in one way or another. Fatty food on the other hand can sustain you and can be part of a well balanced diet It is not needed but it is not simply bad unquestionably. Cigarettes are.

SSG. To me cigarettes are more analogous to illegal drugs than to fast food.