Obama's speech to students today

[GhettoDogAllStars]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

ya know- i'm so sick of the f-ing race card. The same thing happened to Bush 1, see earlier link. Our politics have become so divisive that a congressman openly yelled at our president yesterday. Race should be, and is to most rational people under 65, a non-issue. Do I know that Obama is black, yes, do I know my employees are black, white, Thai, Nepalese, etc. Yes. Does it affect my interactions with them, yes- because each culture has mannerisms and uniqueness which should never be lost or dismissed. But does that fact affect how you evaluate a person's work, character, integrity - no, those are judged on individual merit.
Race is a fact of life, as JR said, but is it a fact used for evaluation, I would argue only by the oldest generations. I know my kids could give a rat's a** about the color of their friends skins, and if you told them that that was a reason not to be friends with someone they would be confused. Now if you say someone is of bad character-regardless of race, they would understand that.

Older (and I include myself) Americans need to get over race, it's not a reason, an excuse, or justification for any action. A person should be judged on his/her actions, and character. That was MLK Jr's dream.

A little background...

My dad was born in Baton Rouge, and moved to England shortly after birth. After returning to America, around the age of 5, he lived in the DC area. His father was a Colonel in the Air Force and eventually became Assistant Secretary of the Navy, as well as Assistant Deputy Secretary of Defense under Ford and Carter. My dad had 3 brothers and 1 sister, and I'm pretty sure their family life was good. His parents are not extreme, but do hold some "old" beliefs.

Today, my dad is an adjunct professor at Salisbury University and he's working on his PhD. He's been a business man all his life, and he's very personable and easy to get along with.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that he has not lived a sheltered life and has been exposed to lots of different perspectives and has a good education. He's 57.

==========

A little story...

Around the time when my sister was 16, she was dating a Dominican guy. My dad basically forbid it -- not dating, but dating *this* guy. After talking with him about it, and digging and irritating him, I basically called him out as a racist. His responses during our arguments led me to that -- it wasn't just some whim, he said some racist things (5 on a scale of 10). He'd never say he hates black people, because he doesn't, he just said that he doesn't believe in interracial relationships. He kept saying it's bad for the children.

Of course I would say, "It's only bad for the children because of racists, because of people like you!" I asked him why he would deny his daughter (and her boyfriend) a chance at love because of something so ignorant. He could not answer that. I asked him if the guy was white, whether it would make any difference and he said it would. I was so amazed and dumbfounded to hear such nonsense coming from my dad -- a man who is reasonably intelligent and who has many redeeming qualities. Up until this point I never knew my dad was a racist (my parents were divorced and I didn't grow up with him).

Fortunately my sister is very headstrong and independent, and didn't give in to their (mother felt the same way) persistent ignorance. She defied them and continued to date this guy. It was young lust and they are no longer together. So, it's not like I'm going to conclude with some feel-good story about how they made a family together and the guy is so great. I don't even know him.

The point of this post was just to illustrate how racism is still *very* alive in our society. It's just more hidden. Some smart and reasonable people, who you would never expect to be racist, are. And, this doesn't just apply to "old" people.

To me, if we are to ever eliminate racism, we need to err on the side of extreme diligence (if that makes any sense). Essentially, it is better to pull the race card more often than not. Better to call racism, even when it might not be, than to avoid it when it might be deserved.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars

A little background...

My dad was born in Baton Rouge, and moved to England shortly after birth. After returning to America, around the age of 5, he lived in the DC area. His father was a Colonel in the Air Force and eventually became Assistant Secretary of the Navy, as well as Assistant Deputy Secretary of Defense under Ford and Carter. My dad had 3 brothers and 1 sister, and I'm pretty sure their family life was good. His parents are not extreme, but do hold some "old" beliefs.

Today, my dad is an adjunct professor at Salisbury University and he's working on his PhD. He's been a business man all his life, and he's very personable and easy to get along with.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that he has not lived a sheltered life and has been exposed to lots of different perspectives and has a good education. He's 57.

==========

A little story...

Around the time when my sister was 16, she was dating a Dominican guy. My dad basically forbid it -- not dating, but dating *this* guy. After talking with him about it, and digging and irritating him, I basically called him out as a racist. His responses during our arguments led me to that -- it wasn't just some whim, he said some racist things (5 on a scale of 10). He'd never say he hates black people, because he doesn't, he just said that he doesn't believe in interracial relationships. He kept saying it's bad for the children.

Of course I would say, "It's only bad for the children because of racists, because of people like you!" I asked him why he would deny his daughter (and her boyfriend) a chance at love because of something so ignorant. He could not answer that. I asked him if the guy was white, whether it would make any difference and he said it would. I was so amazed and dumbfounded to hear such nonsense coming from my dad -- a man who is reasonably intelligent and who has many redeeming qualities. Up until this point I never knew my dad was a racist (my parents were divorced and I didn't grow up with him).

Fortunately my sister is very headstrong and independent, and didn't give in to their (mother felt the same way) persistent ignorance. She defied them and continued to date this guy. It was young lust and they are no longer together. So, it's not like I'm going to conclude with some feel-good story about how they made a family together and the guy is so great. I don't even know him.

The point of this post was just to illustrate how racism is still *very* alive in our society. It's just more hidden. Some smart and reasonable people, who you would never expect to be racist, are. And, this doesn't just apply to "old" people.

To me, if we are to ever eliminate racism, we need to err on the side of extreme diligence (if that makes any sense). Essentially, it is better to pull the race card more often than not. Better to call racism, even when it might not be, than to avoid it when it might be deserved.

It's easy to get lost sometimes even by reasonably intelligent men. I actually had a co-worker tell me the other day he wouldn't bother hiring a black head-coach in pro-sports because when they get fired they might play the race card. He proclaims not to be racist but he found his position to be reasonable. Racism onDemand.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars

A little background...

My dad was born in Baton Rouge, and moved to England shortly after birth. After returning to America, around the age of 5, he lived in the DC area. His father was a Colonel in the Air Force and eventually became Assistant Secretary of the Navy, as well as Assistant Deputy Secretary of Defense under Ford and Carter. My dad had 3 brothers and 1 sister, and I'm pretty sure their family life was good. His parents are not extreme, but do hold some "old" beliefs.

Today, my dad is an adjunct professor at Salisbury University and he's working on his PhD. He's been a business man all his life, and he's very personable and easy to get along with.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that he has not lived a sheltered life and has been exposed to lots of different perspectives and has a good education. He's 57.

==========

A little story...

Around the time when my sister was 16, she was dating a Dominican guy. My dad basically forbid it -- not dating, but dating *this* guy. After talking with him about it, and digging and irritating him, I basically called him out as a racist. His responses during our arguments led me to that -- it wasn't just some whim, he said some racist things (5 on a scale of 10). He'd never say he hates black people, because he doesn't, he just said that he doesn't believe in interracial relationships. He kept saying it's bad for the children.

Of course I would say, "It's only bad for the children because of racists, because of people like you!" I asked him why he would deny his daughter (and her boyfriend) a chance at love because of something so ignorant. He could not answer that. I asked him if the guy was white, whether it would make any difference and he said it would. I was so amazed and dumbfounded to hear such nonsense coming from my dad -- a man who is reasonably intelligent and who has many redeeming qualities. Up until this point I never knew my dad was a racist (my parents were divorced and I didn't grow up with him).

Fortunately my sister is very headstrong and independent, and didn't give in to their (mother felt the same way) persistent ignorance. She defied them and continued to date this guy. It was young lust and they are no longer together. So, it's not like I'm going to conclude with some feel-good story about how they made a family together and the guy is so great. I don't even know him.

The point of this post was just to illustrate how racism is still *very* alive in our society. It's just more hidden. Some smart and reasonable people, who you would never expect to be racist, are. And, this doesn't just apply to "old" people.

To me, if we are to ever eliminate racism, we need to err on the side of extreme diligence (if that makes any sense). Essentially, it is better to pull the race card more often than not. Better to call racism, even when it might not be, than to avoid it when it might be deserved.

I know of a very similar story that is close to me and the the most baffling is that these people can't even fathom that they are racist. They've rationalized it all away. The people involved actually cited my wife and I as someone who would agree with them. They asked us and we were like "WUH??? Yeah no we wouldn't have a problem with it. If we meet the guy and he's seems decent then I wouldn't care either way." This blew them away. Then they start talking about all the stats about interracial relationships and all the respected people that agree with them and we told them it didn't matter.

[over the mountain]

a guy asked my girl how she feels about having a "gray" baby. no joke, he said it with a straight face with all sincerity and this guy is a local at our bar, me and my girl both drank with him a handful of times so this isnt some random guy making an off hand comments (which we get from both black and white people evenly) but a serious question.

needless to say, my girl gets mad on the inside, we leave and I hear her rant about it for the rest of the night.

go skins!!

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I was clarifying, not changing.

I'm glad you don't see color, unfortunately there are many out there that still do.

Well it clear the left does because they are the ones who are always bringing up race.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars

A little background...

My dad was born in Baton Rouge, and moved to England shortly after birth. After returning to America, around the age of 5, he lived in the DC area. His father was a Colonel in the Air Force and eventually became Assistant Secretary of the Navy, as well as Assistant Deputy Secretary of Defense under Ford and Carter. My dad had 3 brothers and 1 sister, and I'm pretty sure their family life was good. His parents are not extreme, but do hold some "old" beliefs.

Today, my dad is an adjunct professor at Salisbury University and he's working on his PhD. He's been a business man all his life, and he's very personable and easy to get along with.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that he has not lived a sheltered life and has been exposed to lots of different perspectives and has a good education. He's 57.

==========

A little story...

Around the time when my sister was 16, she was dating a Dominican guy. My dad basically forbid it -- not dating, but dating *this* guy. After talking with him about it, and digging and irritating him, I basically called him out as a racist. His responses during our arguments led me to that -- it wasn't just some whim, he said some racist things (5 on a scale of 10). He'd never say he hates black people, because he doesn't, he just said that he doesn't believe in interracial relationships. He kept saying it's bad for the children.

Of course I would say, "It's only bad for the children because of racists, because of people like you!" I asked him why he would deny his daughter (and her boyfriend) a chance at love because of something so ignorant. He could not answer that. I asked him if the guy was white, whether it would make any difference and he said it would. I was so amazed and dumbfounded to hear such nonsense coming from my dad -- a man who is reasonably intelligent and who has many redeeming qualities. Up until this point I never knew my dad was a racist (my parents were divorced and I didn't grow up with him).

Fortunately my sister is very headstrong and independent, and didn't give in to their (mother felt the same way) persistent ignorance. She defied them and continued to date this guy. It was young lust and they are no longer together. So, it's not like I'm going to conclude with some feel-good story about how they made a family together and the guy is so great. I don't even know him.

The point of this post was just to illustrate how racism is still *very* alive in our society. It's just more hidden. Some smart and reasonable people, who you would never expect to be racist, are. And, this doesn't just apply to "old" people.

To me, if we are to ever eliminate racism, we need to err on the side of extreme diligence (if that makes any sense). Essentially, it is better to pull the race card more often than not. Better to call racism, even when it might not be, than to avoid it when it might be deserved.

How come all the examples always used about race is of a white person and never a black person who is racist. Why don't we ever see people like Rev. Wright used as the example? Wouldn't always using a white person in the examples be a form of racism in itself?

[DynamiteRave]

Originally Posted by firstdown

How come all the examples always used about race is of a white person and never a black person who is racist. Why don't we ever see people like Rev. Wright used as the example? Wouldn't always using a white person in the examples be a form of racism in itself?

Not if it's more common that people have personally experienced it with white people saying said racially charged comments. That's not to say that black people don't. I know my family isn't the most supportive of interracial relationships (I'm black). So it goes both ways, but it seems as if white people are more open to expressing their dissent. (generally speaking)

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by firstdown

How come all the examples always used about race is of a white person and never a black person who is racist. Why don't we ever see people like Rev. Wright used as the example? Wouldn't always using a white person in the examples be a form of racism in itself?

That's actually a good question. When I think of someone who's a racist they believe that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race. Secondly, and historically, blacks and other minorities have been on the receiving end of "racists" behavior for over 400 years. It was not that long ago, during the civil rights era, when blacks were denied many basic rights that all Americans enjoy today. So it's against that back drop and sordid history we have defined who's racists and who's not. Or should I say who's more likely to be a racist. The truth is racism doesn't always fall into some neat little square box where it's easy to identify. Are some blacks guilty of being angry, resentful, bitter, and displaying racial hatred towards whites? No question about it.

I'm curious too, what exactly did Rev. Wright say that was racist?

[MTK]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Well it clear the left does because they are the ones who are always bringing up race.

And the right never does?

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

And the right never does?

Well if you go by just what we see here in post I'd say 95% of race comments come from people here who seem to lean to the left. Just look at the lady (sorry forgot her name) just appointed to the supreme court the Dems. called alot of people who apposed her racist. Then when Clarence Thomas deal went down I cannot recall the right using the race card. Thats just two quick examples.

[GhettoDogAllStars]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Well it clear the left does because they are the ones who are always bringing up race.

Bringing up race -- in essence, talking about race -- doesn't make you a racist any more than talking about spaceships makes you an astronaut.

We're so PC nowadays people don't want to talk about race. I think it would do us some good to talk about it more.

[dmek25]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Well if you go by just what we see here in post I'd say 95% of race comments come from people here who seem to lean to the left. Just look at the lady (sorry forgot her name) just appointed to the supreme court the Dems. called alot of people who apposed her racist. Then when Clarence Thomas deal went down I cannot recall the right using the race card. Thats just two quick examples.

he was nominated by Pres Bush ( a republican) that's why. how many people have you heard say i want my country back? to me, a direct reference to racism. i agree, its still around. but alot of Americans are becoming less and less tolerant of seeing, or hearing it. its just incognito more

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by dmek25

he was nominated by Pres Bush ( a republican) that's why. how many people have you heard say i want my country back? to me, a direct reference to racism. i agree, its still around. but alot of Americans are becoming less and less tolerant of seeing, or hearing it. its just incognito more

While this may be what it means to you (as you point out), it is certainly not the only reasonable interpretation of the phrase..........
It ain't all about race.........

[CRedskinsRule]

i qualified my earlier remarks, I know many older Americans still have the racism background in their lives. If you want personal stories... My 2 best friends in Jr/Sr High, 1 black and one a Jew. My dad wouldn't let my black friend come to my house, and had a conniption when I brought my jewish friend(even he wasn't practicing - found out a lot later he was gay glad my dad didn't know that part) with the family on a trip to Colorado. He has mellowed alot with age, but you know it's still there. But I'm not. None of my siblings are in any way that I could ever tell, and my kids wouldn't even consider it, as i said. Far more often, in my opinion, racism is claimed when arguments are actually political based or as an excuse for an action which otherwise would be untenable.
As long as a disagreement or poor behavior can be claimed as rascism, rather than just declaring it civiil or uncivil, legal or illegal, both sides prolong the racial undercurrent that should die an ignominious death.
more of my 2cents

[GhettoDogAllStars]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

i qualified my earlier remarks, I know many older Americans still have the racism background in their lives. If you want personal stories... My 2 best friends in Jr/Sr High, 1 black and one a Jew. My dad wouldn't let my black friend come to my house, and had a conniption when I brought my jewish friend(even he wasn't practicing - found out a lot later he was gay glad my dad didn't know that part) with the family on a trip to Colorado. He has mellowed alot with age, but you know it's still there. But I'm not. None of my siblings are in any way that I could ever tell, and my kids wouldn't even consider it, as i said. Far more often, in my opinion, racism is claimed when arguments are actually political based or as an excuse for an action which otherwise would be untenable.
As long as a disagreement or poor behavior can be claimed as rascism, rather than just declaring it civiil or uncivil, legal or illegal, both sides prolong the racial undercurrent that should die an ignominious death.
more of my 2cents

Just to be clear, I didn't tell that story because I thought it applied to you. It was simply a response to the, "hey stop playing the race card," comment. Your post was good -- judge a man based on his character, not his race.

You're right, it's frustrating when people can't disagree without being called racist. However, we all know that disagreement alone is not racist if the reasons are valid and not racial.

By the same token, people should not be criticized when they, "play the race card." Sometimes they're right, and sometimes they're wrong. Either way, it does us more good to bring these issues to the forefront, rather than brush them aside. I'm not saying you're advocating that -- just trying to clarify.

As long as we ignore race, the people with hidden racism remain ignored. Someday, when racism is truly abolished, then we can ignore race. As it is now, most people think racism is already abolished -- with the exception of a few extremists. This is not the case. Most racists do not even know they are racist -- like my dad. Of course, there are degrees of racism. On one hand, there's the guy who tells racist jokes, and on the other there's the skinhead.

Now, I don't want to bash my dad. I love him very much, and like I said earlier he's a reasonable and intelligent guy for the most part. I hope that I got through to him on some level, and he's now seen the error of his ways.