Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by GMScud

I disagree that he's a top 5 WR (although physically I think he's probably a top 2 or 3 WR). He was 30th in the league in catches last year and has never topped the 70 catch mark. I think his best seasons are probably still in front of him though (depending on where he's playing). Brandon Marshall is a year younger and already has 3 100+ catch, 1100+ yard seasons in lesser offenses with lesser QBs than VJ. IMO Jackson's avg yards/catch still doesn't trump those numbers.

Plus there's the whole looming suspension thing.

Exactly.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Jackson is probably the one acquisition in the NFL that could take us from borderline playoff contender to borderline super bowl contender.

He's not young for his experience level, necessarily, but he's just a 5th year player who is 27 years old. That gives him 2 or 3 more years as an elite, top five, NFL wide receiver, which means he's worth a first round pick plus in compensation.

If the Redskins are going to acquire him, however, they'll need to get really creative, because we can't afford to give up our first and our second rounder to get this guy. Haynesworth probably isn't worth much value to San Diego, but other players on our roster very well might be.

I'd try to send over a 2012 first rounder, and a couple of players, perhaps Chris Horton and Santana Moss, or Carlos Rogers and Devin Thomas. That might get it done, if only because Jackson is in such heavy contract limbo, and could be a UFA next year if the CBA allows for it.

Word of caution is that AJ Smith might be the one NFL GM who is willing to let a valuable player sit out rather than overpay him. In the future, more GMs will play hardass with their players, but Smith, I think, is going to get run out of town for being a little ahead of his time.

I disagree. We were 4-12 for a reason. I'd be more realistic and say Jackson makes us a playoff contender. Not a SB contender.

[Monksdown]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I disagree. We were 4-12 for a reason. I'd be more realistic and say Jackson makes us a playoff contender. Not a SB contender.

Or even better. Without Jackson i see us right now as a borderline 9-7 team, wild card contender. With a top notch number 1, such as Jackson, we are borderline 10-6, and we win the division.

That being said, I don't want to pay him, i don't want to trade for him. I think we will need the picks to address QB, RB, WR, and DB over the next 2 years.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Monksdown

Or even better. Without Jackson i see us right now as a borderline 9-7 team, wild card contender. With a top notch number 1, such as Jackson, we are borderline 10-6, and we win the division.

That being said, I don't want to pay him, i don't want to trade for him. I think we will need the picks to address QB, RB, WR, and DB over the next 2 years.

I agree.

[saden1]

I'd get him if the price is a 2nd rounder plus some late round pick (5th/6th/7th).

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by saden1

I'd get him if the price is a 2nd rounder plus some late round pick (5th/6th/7th).

IMO that should be the price range. Miami gave up two second rounders for Brandon Marshall who is younger and statistically pretty dominant over VJ. No way we should give more than Miami did.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by GMScud

IMO that should be the price range. Miami gave up two second rounders for Brandon Marshall who is younger and statistically pretty dominant over VJ. No way we should give more than Miami did.

Can't agree that Marshall is statistically dominant over VJ. Marshall is a 12 yard per reception guy for his career, which is less than, among others, Santana Moss and Malcolm Kelly. He doesn't catch a particularly high % if the 180 targets per year he averages. His (Marshall's) 10 TDs last year represent a significant breakout over his past, or potentially, a fluke year. For Jackson, a 7-10 TD season would just be expected.

I know he's been able to rack up the big totals in Denver, with 100 receptions and 1,000 yards, but those haven't really been great passing games for that work. The Chargers have been great and then some, which is a credit to everyone involved (Rivers, Jackson, Sproles, Gates, Norv)

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Can't agree that Marshall is statistically dominant over VJ. Marshall is a 12 yard per reception guy for his career, which is less than, among others, Santana Moss and Malcolm Kelly. He doesn't catch a particularly high % if the 180 targets per year he averages. His (Marshall's) 10 TDs last year represent a significant breakout over his past, or potentially, a fluke year. For Jackson, a 7-10 TD season would just be expected.

I know he's been able to rack up the big totals in Denver, with 100 receptions and 1,000 yards, but those haven't really been great passing games for that work. The Chargers have been great and then some, which is a credit to everyone involved (Rivers, Jackson, Sproles, Gates, Norv)

I hear you, I just feel like Marshall is a really dynamic playmaker. He has a penchant for big time catches, and often finds spectacular ways to find the endzone after the catch. I know "dynamic playmaker" is tough to quantify (and I also know that his YPC doesn't help that argument), but that's just my opinion.

Also, when you're targeted as often as Marshall was in Denver, chances are your YPC is going to be lower. He was used so much in both the short, intermediate, and deep passing game, much more so than VJ in SD. Not that VJ couldn't be that guy, he just wasn't for reasons you pointed out (Gates and good pass catching RBs).

I have no doubt if you swapped VJ's role in SD with Brandon Marshall, the YPC numbers would have been just as good.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by GMScud

I hear you, I just feel like Marshall is a really dynamic playmaker. He has a penchant for big time catches, and often finds spectacular ways to find the endzone after the catch. I know "dynamic playmaker" is tough to quantify (and I also know that his YPC doesn't help that argument), but that's just my opinion.

Also, when you're targeted as often as Marshall was in Denver, chances are your YPC is going to be lower. He was used so much in both the short, intermediate, and deep passing game, much more so than VJ in SD. Not that VJ couldn't be that guy, he just wasn't for reasons you pointed out (Gates and good pass catching RBs).

I have no doubt if you swapped VJ's role in SD with Brandon Marshall, the YPC numbers would have been just as good.

I do think Marshall's best days are ahead of him, which is why I've refrained from ripping the Dolphins from throwing two second round picks at him. As a prospective pickup, there's clearly plenty of talent there to work with.

As a player, Marshall is sort of a workhorse receiver. Problem is, I'm not really sure there's a spot for a workhorse receiver in an NFL offense. Which is to say, if I know I have a guy who can get 10 catches a game on 18 to 20 targets, but is only going to turn those 20 plays into 120 yards, well, now I'm averaging 6 yards per pass. If JaMarcus Russell is your quarterback, that's great! Get that man the football!

I think Marshall can be valuable if one out of every ten of his catches can go for a touchdown, as they did this year. But that's a career high mark. Over his career, it's been one in every fourteen to sixteen passes. In a high scoring offense. That's a guy who, traditionally, isn't very good in the red zone. And so if you aren't good at getting yards, and you're not good in the red zone, and you're going to act like an immature baby, why would I want you on my team?

Jackson does all those things well, and by all accounts, isn't out there to embarrass his teammates or his family name. And I think the numbers speak for themselves: he deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as Larry Fitzgerald. We don't discount Fitz' performance for having his best three years with a future hall of fame passer, and so Jackson shouldn't be seen as simply a product of Philip Rivers' genius.

[over the mountain]

Anyone else getting the feeling that McNabb's window of time left before he starts to noticeably decline (2-3 years) is the window allen and shanny want to win a SB?

Just seems like we are in a win now or next year mode.

top 10 defense? check
Getting a franchise qb? check
Getting a LT and RT? check
Getting a true no. 1 receiver to reap the benefits of having a franchise qb and competent O line? TBD.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

Anyone else getting the feeling that McNabb's window of time left before he starts to noticeably decline (2-3 years) is the window allen and shanny want to win a SB?

Just seems like we are in a win now or next year mode.

top 10 defense? check
Getting a franchise qb? check
Getting a LT and RT? check
Getting a true no. 1 receiver to reap the benefits of having a franchise qb and competent O line? TBD.

Shanhan won SB's in Denver with and 8th round WR and undrafted WR.
I see your point about McNabb....but I think our looking at WR's right now is more about Shannahan not happy with what we currently have at WR than that we need to win now because McNabb is older. They are exploring the diffrent options and cost to improve our WR corp that he is clearly not happy with yet.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

Shanhan won SB's in Denver with and 8th round WR and undrafted WR.
I see your point about McNabb....but I think our looking at WR's right now is more about Shannahan not happy with what we currently have at WR than that we need to win now because McNabb is older. They are exploring the diffrent options and cost to improve our WR corp that he is clearly not happy with yet.

He also had one of the best QB in NFL history.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

Anyone else getting the feeling that McNabb's window of time left before he starts to noticeably decline (2-3 years) is the window allen and shanny want to win a SB?

Just seems like we are in a win now or next year mode.

top 10 defense? check
Getting a franchise qb? check
Getting a LT and RT? check
Getting a true no. 1 receiver to reap the benefits of having a franchise qb and competent O line? TBD.

I think it's safe to say the plan from the very beginning with McNabb involved a 3 year window to try to win it all. You don't bring in a 33 year old QB with plans on rebuilding, that's for sure.

[Mechanix544]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

I think it's safe to say the plan from the very beginning with McNabb involved a 3 year window to try to win it all. You don't bring in a 33 year old QB with plans on rebuilding, that's for sure.

Completely agree. Just hope we can protect him, thats all......

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

I think it's safe to say the plan from the very beginning with McNabb involved a 3 year window to try to win it all. You don't bring in a 33 year old QB with plans on rebuilding, that's for sure.

I agree that there's likely a window Shanny/Allen are working with, however despite said window, they still need to find a good balance with an influx of youth as well.