Other teams cuts - and the obvious should we get them question.

[Shanetrn1]

i feel we need another servicable OL and I think we should be actively looking for a WR

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Buster

Anderson has actually put up good numbers at one point in his career, with the Browns.

Leinart has been HORRIBLE in every chance he's gotten, with weapons like Fitz and Boldin...on a team where his replacement took the team to the Super Bowl.

No, Anderson didn't deserve that huge contract from Cleveland after one good year, but he was better than Brady Quinn (who isn't?) and he's better than Leinart too.

Anderson: 2007 - 3,787 yds, 29 TDs, 19 INTs, 3 rushing TDs, 82.5 rating
Career = 46 TDs, 45 INTs

Leinart's best year: 2006 - 2,547 tds, 11 TDs, 12 INTs, 2 rushing TDs, 74.0 rating
Career = 14 TDs, 20 INTs

If you're going to use stats, you do have to be responsible enough to not decide your argument before you go to them. I haven't looked, but I'm guessing -- just a "hunch" -- that the reason that you gave us full developmental year totals, but stopped at career TD/INT rate wasn't because lunch was getting cold. I'm guessing its because, career, Leinart either compares favorably to or just embarrasses Derek Anderson.

/checks PFR

All numbers career:

Completion percentage
Leinart -- 57%
Anderson -- 53%

QB Rating
Leinart -- 70.8
Anderson -- 69.7

Sack Rate
Anderson -- 4.1% (probably the one thing Anderson does really well)
Leinart -- 4.6%

Interception Rate
Leinart -- 3.4%
Anderson -- 4.1%

TD Rate
Anderson -- 4.1%
Leinart -- 2.4%

Yards Per Attempt
Leinart -- 6.5
Anderson -- 6.4

Adjusted Net Yards Per Attempt
Leinart -- 4.9
Anderson -- 4.9

Clearly, at best, they are equals of each other, and there's no argument based on past evidence to suggest Anderson is better (perhaps that Cardinals O>Browns O, but even that, I mean don't forget about how bad Denny Green's Cards teams were). Leinart leads in all categories that are statistically stable, with the exception of sack rate.

But it's not like Leinart is taking a ton of sacks, he's actually above average if not as good as Anderson. Problem is, when Anderson does throw the ball, bad things tend to happen.

[CRedskinsRule]

For those saying we need another OL, who would you want, and who would you replace:
1st string - Not going to be cut or replaced with anyone coming through these next waivers
LT T Williams
LG D Dockery
C C Rabach
RG A Hicks
LT J Brown

2nd String- Possibly cut or replaced
LT W Robinson
LG none listed
C K Licht
RG C Rinehart
RT S Heyer

Practice Squad -my guess - also could replace Heyer/Rinehart
Capers, Cook

Cut(my guess)
Will Montgomery, Oldenburg.

I just don't know enough other guys out there to say the Skins ought to get this player, and they will be a substantial improvement over these players. I think it would be more of a "fan-think" move to replace a player just because our OL last year stunk.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

If you're going to use stats, you do have to be responsible enough to not decide your argument before you go to them. I haven't looked, but I'm guessing -- just a "hunch" -- that the reason that you gave us full developmental year totals, but stopped at career TD/INT rate wasn't because lunch was getting cold. I'm guessing its because, career, Leinart either compares favorably to or just embarrasses Derek Anderson.

/checks PFR

All numbers career:

Completion percentage
Leinart -- 57%
Anderson -- 53%

QB Rating
Leinart -- 70.8
Anderson -- 69.7

Sack Rate
Anderson -- 4.1% (probably the one thing Anderson does really well)
Leinart -- 4.6%

Interception Rate
Leinart -- 3.4%
Anderson -- 4.1%

TD Rate
Anderson -- 4.1%
Leinart -- 2.4%

Yards Per Attempt
Leinart -- 6.5
Anderson -- 6.4

Adjusted Net Yards Per Attempt
Leinart -- 4.9
Anderson -- 4.9

Clearly, at best, they are equals of each other, and there's no argument based on past evidence to suggest Anderson is better (perhaps that Cardinals O>Browns O, but even that, I mean don't forget about how bad Denny Green's Cards teams were). Leinart leads in all categories that are statistically stable, with the exception of sack rate.

But it's not like Leinart is taking a ton of sacks, he's actually above average if not as good as Anderson. Problem is, when Anderson does throw the ball, bad things tend to happen.

One huge factor in QB stat comparison is Leinart played on a good playoff Cardinal team and Anderson played on one of the worst teams in the NFL. Throwing to Boldin and Fitzy is a little easier.
I understand the need to compare stats, especially with QB's. But as we have mentioned so many times before stats are a just a fraction of the entire picture. Especially with QB's.
What I mean by that is Leinart or any Qb completes a 10 yard reception which statically is a big positive. But what gets missed is on that same play another receiver was running wide open for 20 yards further down and woud have been an easy TD and coaches will grade that as a big minus. It was a major blown opportunity. It is what the QB's do with the ball and where they choose to throw it to that is not reflected in the stats and is what is downgrading Leinart the checkdown king. It is not just TD's, Int's, and completion %'s and all the other stats.
When I watch Leinart play I am nor impressed at all. Regardless of Anderson.
Leinart is not comfortable and does not see the entire NFL field.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

One huge factor in QB stat comparison is Leinart played on a good playoff Cardinal team and Anderson played on one of the worst teams in the NFL. Throwing to Boldin and Fitzy is a little easier.
I understand the need to compare stats, especially with QB's. But as we have mentioned so many times before stats are a just a fraction of the entire picture. Especially with QB's.
What I mean by that is Leinart or any Qb can completes a 10 yard completion which statically is a big positive. But what gets missed is on that same play another reciever was running wide open for 20 yards further down and woud have been an easy TD and coaches will grade that as a big minus. It was a major blown opportunity. It is what the QB's do with the ball and where they choose to throw it to that is not reflected in the stats and is what is downgrading Leinart the checkdown king. It is not just TD's, Int's, and completion %'s and all the other stats.
When I watch Leinart play I am nor impressed at all. Regardless of Anderson.
Leinart is not comfortable and does not see the entire NFL field.

It could be seen as nitpicking, but it's not: Leinart didn't play on a good Cardinals team. He was the backup QB on a good Cardinals team, who started just one game on two teams that went to the playoffs. Leinart played on a Cardinals team every bit as bad as the worst Browns teams in the last decade, and a lot worse than the 2007 Browns offense, which was pretty good independent of it's quarterback, if only for ten games. Boldin was already a very good receiver when Leinart got in (and his stats reflect that), but Fitzgerald became an elite player in the 2008 playoffs, well after Leinart was buried, and certainly not because of Leinart.

I also really don't like the argument about quarterbacks seeing the field or not. Didn't like it with Campbell, and don't like it with Leinart because it assumes far too much. Even if there is a field vision problem, the only thing that fans can do (and game tape does not help with this) is presuppose that it's correct. And that's fallacious thinking.

For example, I can say from game tape that Mark Sanchez absolutely can't throw to his left. He's terrible there, both on film and on the stat sheet. There's nothing, however, to suggest that he has a vision problem to the left side. That's possible, but assuming as much would be wrong.

With that said, Leinart likely is who he is. He's a very good backup in this league, and probably a marginal starter. He may just be Jason Campbell, without the running ability to extend drives when you have coverages that can take away your best targets on third down. And ultimately, the Cards are going to have to try to improve on that.

But I disagree with Ken Whisenhunt (who has certainly earned the right to guess wrong at least once with his QB) that this decision can be made independent of Derek Anderson. Because that's who you have. I don't think he's necessarily wrong on Leinart, but this is how you take the revenue gained from at least making the playoffs in an absolute gimme division, and cost your franchise that revenue: by making decisions like this one.

And I think your points here are good ones: the best QBs take their shots at the deeper plays when they need to. But while it's safe to assume that Larry Fitzgerald is going to get open downfield a couple times a game no matter what coverage the other teams play, it's not going to be Derek Anderson's added ability to find him that makes the difference in the Cards season. It's going to be the negative plays that Anderson routinely makes on plays where Fitzgerald is well-covered that will have them losing a game for every one they win.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

You have to hate the way Leinart is dealing with being demoted too.

Also keep in mind this is not the first time they've had to demote him.

If you remember when they brought Warner in, they were rotating the QBs. Warner was bad on the Giants...was injured when he arrived, everyone thought he was done.

But, the old man clearly outplayed Leinart. They tried hard to get him on the field...what teams actually use 2 rotating QBs in the NFL? But, he played himself out of a job then...and did again this year.

[SBXVII]

I know some here are interested in Leinart, but just as a reminder...

Word got out that the reason why Colt was cut was to make room for Beck whome Shanahan supposedly coveted when he was coming out of college. And.... I think it's the very person they recently gave a 2 yr extention to even thought they have not extended McNabb yet.

My guess would be they are happy with Beck.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

It could be seen as nitpicking, but it's not: Leinart didn't play on a good Cardinals team. He was the backup QB on a good Cardinals team, who started just one game on two teams that went to the playoffs. Leinart played on a Cardinals team every bit as bad as the worst Browns teams in the last decade, and a lot worse than the 2007 Browns offense, which was pretty good independent of it's quarterback, if only for ten games. Boldin was already a very good receiver when Leinart got in (and his stats reflect that), but Fitzgerald became an elite player in the 2008 playoffs, well after Leinart was buried, and certainly not because of Leinart.

I also really don't like the argument about quarterbacks seeing the field or not. Didn't like it with Campbell, and don't like it with Leinart because it assumes far too much. Even if there is a field vision problem, the only thing that fans can do (and game tape does not help with this) is presuppose that it's correct. And that's fallacious thinking.

For example, I can say from game tape that Mark Sanchez absolutely can't throw to his left. He's terrible there, both on film and on the stat sheet. There's nothing, however, to suggest that he has a vision problem to the left side. That's possible, but assuming as much would be wrong.

With that said, Leinart likely is who he is. He's a very good backup in this league, and probably a marginal starter. He may just be Jason Campbell, without the running ability to extend drives when you have coverages that can take away your best targets on third down. And ultimately, the Cards are going to have to try to improve on that.

But I disagree with Ken Whisenhunt (who has certainly earned the right to guess wrong at least once with his QB) that this decision can be made independent of Derek Anderson. Because that's who you have. I don't think he's necessarily wrong on Leinart, but this is how you take the revenue gained from at least making the playoffs in an absolute gimme division, and cost your franchise that revenue: by making decisions like this one.

And I think your points here are good ones: the best QBs take their shots at the deeper plays when they need to. But while it's safe to assume that Larry Fitzgerald is going to get open downfield a couple times a game no matter what coverage the other teams play, it's not going to be Derek Anderson's added ability to find him that makes the difference in the Cards season. It's going to be the negative plays that Anderson routinely makes on plays where Fitzgerald is well-covered that will have them losing a game for every one they win.

I really like and agree with your assessment of Leinart above and comparing him to Campbell.
However, I used the word vision for lack of a better word when trying to describe my dislike of Leinart's throwing decisions and mental progression in the passing game. I feel like there was a noticeable difference between Leinart and Kurt Warner. I don't really care or have a preference between Leinart or Anderson. I just see Anderson as a slightly more confidant Qb and it reflects in his play, even when he f's up. Leinart looks like he playing not to F-up.
Then to top it off Leinart acted out when he was demoted. To the press no less. His ego is bigger than the team.

[CRedskinsRule]

I am going to assume, given the intense Leinart-Anderson debate, that one is assured to be cut from another team, and in fact, someone here feels that we should pick the one that is cut up, and by doing so we will have reached CHAMPIONSHIP.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I am going to assume, given the intense Leinart-Anderson debate, that one is assured to be cut from another team, and in fact, someone here feels that we should pick the one that is cut up, and by doing so we will have reached CHAMPIONSHIP.

No, not for me. Just plain old talking about Leinart. There was a huge debate back years ago when Leinart and Vince Young were drafted. There was a lot of negative comments toward Vince Young at the time and it surprised me. Several people here saying V Young was going to be another inaccurate scrambling black Qb and that Leinart was going to be a much better pro. That has turned out to be wrong. Although the story is not finished. They are both still young and a lot can still happen.

[artmonkforhallofamein07]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I am going to assume, given the intense Leinart-Anderson debate, that one is assured to be cut from another team, and in fact, someone here feels that we should pick the one that is cut up, and by doing so we will have reached CHAMPIONSHIP.

Of course C.....

Championship!!

LMAO.

I highly doubt that we will bring either of these QBs to the Redskins given we already have plenty of proven QB talent here in Ol D.C.

[GTripp0012]

There's still a lot to prove for Vince Young, but the other thing is the way that quarterback play has evolved in the NFL since the 2006 draft, you're better off with the dual threat quarterback who can make all the throws than you are with Leinart or Cutler, who might be able to throw the ball through a brick wall, but cant seem to throw it through a defender's chest.

Quarterback play, league wide, has moved decisively in the direction of Vince Young being successful, and should it continue in the current direction, Young will be a top ten quarterback someday. Problem for Leinart is, while he came into the league a relative commodity, players like him are being developed at an astounding rate. Its not that he can't play, he's just not very special. Joe Flacco may only be a little bit better than Leinart, but he came from Delaware vs. USC, and Cam Cameron deserves all the credit in the world for succeeding with him just a year after failing with John Beck.

[Defensewins]

^ I agree. The college QB's that are pocket passers and non-scrambling Qb's have to be able to develop the ability unload the ball early or else they will fail in the NFL. Or have the rare ability like Brady and Peyton Manning to sense the rush and slide around it.
The pass rushers in the NFL are so much better than in NCAA's. That is why Patrick Ramsey has not landed a starting job. Great arm but slow to get rid of it and not good at sensing the pressure in his blind spots.
Ramsey and Leinart have to develop the ability to throw to a spot and hope that the receiver will meet up with the ball. They can not wait for a receiver to come open. It takes to long.

[Dirtbag59]

JasonLaCanfora

SEA trying to move TJ Houshmandzadeh, but unlikely anyone takes him on. WR due to make $7M-plus guaranteed in '10. He's available, though

[JoeRedskin]

Well, of course we have to have Whoseyourmama b/c that would mean - yes, you guessed it - CHAMPIONSHIP !!!!