Kornheiser believes Skins would make run at Moss

offiss · 01-25-2005, 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daseal

Moss works hard and has all the god given talent in the world. TO works harder than everyone on the team. When Rod Gardner was dropping passes he stayed after practice to catch more balls and get back into the groove. That's a high character guy. Why are we dumping him?

What groove are you talking about daseal? Whatever he's doing after practice ain't working, we don't need a player who you can't trust to make a routine catch let alone a tough one there is a reason his nickname is 50/50.

Daseal · 01-25-2005, 10:06 AM

Offiss: Gardner didn't drop many passes later in the season at all. He honestly maybe dropped 5 - 8 more than Coles this year. Nicknames are sometimes a bit unfair, he normally makes the hard catches but is known to drop the easy catches. Rod Gardner isn't exactly the worst we could do. What I was showing was that Rod Gardner shows all the signs of a "Gibbs Guy" that apparently we're so after, yet everyone here want's him gone.

offiss · 01-25-2005, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daseal

Offiss: Gardner didn't drop many passes later in the season at all. He honestly maybe dropped 5 - 8 more than Coles this year. Nicknames are sometimes a bit unfair, he normally makes the hard catches but is known to drop the easy catches. Rod Gardner isn't exactly the worst we could do. What I was showing was that Rod Gardner shows all the signs of a "Gibbs Guy" that apparently we're so after, yet everyone here want's him gone.

I would love for this guy to full his potential but I don't see it happening, I have a question for you Daseal championship game 4th and 10 super bowl appearence on the line would you consider throwing to Gardner regardless of how open he may be? I wouldn't even want him on the field as far as im concerned he's not a viable option because he can't be trusted to make an easy routine catch.

MTK · 01-25-2005, 10:52 AM

The problem with Rod is how he disappears for long stretches. That may be due to a few reasons, it could be due to the system, it could be due to the QB's not having faith in going his way, or perhaps it's his fault and he's not getting open consistently.

It seemed strange that once Ramsey took over Coles' production increased right away and RG totally disappeared. Perhaps Ramsey and Coles have a connection that he doesn't have with RG, but I have a feeling it has more to do with the fact RG isn't known for his precise route running.

The bottom line is it's very unlikely we would ink him to a new deal after his deal is up this year, so why not try to see what we can get for him now? He's had one 1000 yard season and his other 3 seasons have been average at best. Not exactly the kind of player you'd want to tie up a lot of money in.

He's a decent #2 but it's time to see what other guys can do like Jacobs.

It's great that he works hard to improve in practice, but even hard workers get cut/traded. At some point that hard work has to translate in to production on the field, with Rod it's just not happening.

TheMalcolmConnection · 01-25-2005, 11:29 AM

Rudy was a hard worker and he only got to play 1 play for Notre Dame.

Daseal · 01-25-2005, 08:21 PM

I'd throw it to Gardner, if he were open. Would he be my first choice? Certainly not. Would anyone on our roster be my first choice? Nope. But I have faith that Rod, Coles, and Cooley could make a big catch in situations like that. Name one game Rod Gardner lost for us.

I think he's better than most people want to give him credit for, but he's certainly not a star. Rod made some big catches this year, we seem to conviently forget about those. He ate Dallas alive! Why? We threw to him! I really think he's the type of receiver who needs a lot of balls to get in his groove and if you keep going to him, he'll give you more positives than negatives.

offiss · 01-25-2005, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daseal

I'd throw it to Gardner, if he were open. Would he be my first choice? Certainly not. Would anyone on our roster be my first choice? Nope. But I have faith that Rod, Coles, and Cooley could make a big catch in situations like that. Name one game Rod Gardner lost for us.

I think he's better than most people want to give him credit for, but he's certainly not a star. Rod made some big catches this year, we seem to conviently forget about those. He ate Dallas alive! Why? We threw to him! I really think he's the type of receiver who needs a lot of balls to get in his groove and if you keep going to him, he'll give you more positives than negatives.

How about the first game Ramsey played this year and he hit him with a 5yard toss on what had to be one of the easiest td catches of all time and he dropped it then Ramsey threw an INT in the corner of the endzone, which probably did cost us that game I believe it was the giant game. how many times has he failed to hang on to a first down catch or committed a stupid penalty after a big play? To many for me I have washed my hand's of the guy.

TheMalcolmConnection · 01-25-2005, 10:46 PM

Honestly, I don't want Gardener gone, I'M just talking as though it is an inevitability. In a perfect world, EVERYONE comes back, we draft a great DE, get a good center and all is right in the world.

MTK · 01-26-2005, 08:55 AM

Gardner isn't garbage but we can certainly do better. Rod's had his chance for 4 years now and he's failed to impress in 3 of those seasons. Time to move on.

Daseal · 01-26-2005, 10:01 AM

You're right about the Giants game, forgot about that.

Penelties? I don't remember many penelties on Rod this year, and certainly not after a big play. Maybe one holding penelty while blocking up field. I think he just needs more balls to go his way - how many of our receivers had impressive seasons this year. The answer is 0. Our best receiver seemed to be a rookie H-Back.

MTK · 01-26-2005, 11:14 AM

You don't remember any penalties on Rod? That's like saying you don't remember Brunell playing poorly.

I was impressed with Coles' 90 catches considering the injury he was playing with and a god-awful passing game especially with Brunell in there.

Daseal · 01-26-2005, 11:27 AM

What was the average YPC, Matty. And I said I don't remember a whole lot of RG penetlies, and I know most of his penelties weren't after the play.

MTK · 01-26-2005, 11:34 AM

Here's what I found on RG for penalties

From the first Giants game:

Washington Redskins at 14:15
1-10-NYG 49 (14:15) 11-P.Ramsey pass to 80-L.Coles to NYG 47 for 2 yards (25-W.Allen).
2-8-NYG 47 (13:52) 11-P.Ramsey pass to 26-C.Portis to NYG 44 for 3 yards (25-W.Allen).
PENALTY on WAS-87-R.Gardner, Illegal Shift, 5 yards, enforced at NYG 47 - No Play.

Browns game:

Washington Redskins at 8:53
1-10-WAS 43 (8:53) 8-M.Brunell pass incomplete to 47-C.Cooley.
PENALTY on WAS-87-R.Gardner, Illegal Motion, 5 yards, enforced at WAS 43 - No Play.

2nd Philly game:

Washington Redskins at 2:56
1-10-WAS 38 (2:56) 26-C.Portis left end to WAS 42 for 4 yards (54-J.Trotter).
2-6-WAS 42 (2:22) 11-P.Ramsey pass to 26-C.Portis pushed ob at WAS 41 for -1 yards (50-M.Simoneau).
Timeout #2 by PHI at 02:13.
3-7-WAS 41 (2:13) 11-P.Ramsey pass to 80-L.Coles ran ob at PHI 45 for 14 yards. P8
1-10-PHI 45 (2:08) 11-P.Ramsey pass to 47-C.Cooley to PHI 40 for 5 yards (26-L.Sheppard).
Two-Minute Warning
2-5-PHI 40 (2:00) PENALTY on WAS-66-D.Dockery, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at PHI 40 - No Play.
2-10-PHI 45 (2:00) 11-P.Ramsey pass to 80-L.Coles to PHI 25 for 20 yards (26-L.Sheppard). P9
1-10-PHI 25 (1:14) 26-C.Portis left end ran ob at PHI 14 for 11 yards.
PENALTY on WAS-85-D.McCants, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at PHI 24.
1-19-PHI 34 (1:09) PENALTY on WAS-87-R.Gardner, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at PHI 34 - No Play.
1-24-PHI 39 (1:09) 11-P.Ramsey pass to 80-L.Coles to PHI 35 for 4 yards (54-J.Trotter).
Timeout #2 by WAS at 00:57.
2-20-PHI 35 (:57) 11-P.Ramsey pass to 87-R.Gardner to PHI 25 for 10 yards (26-L.Sheppard).
3-10-PHI 25 (:30) (No Huddle) 11-P.Ramsey pass incomplete to 47-C.Cooley.
4-10-PHI 25 (:24) 10-J.Hall 43 yard field goal is No Good, Wide Right, Center-71-E.Albright, Holder-19-T.Tupa.

2nd Dallas game:

Washington Redskins at 5:01
1-10-WAS 1 (5:01) 11-P.Ramsey pass to 87-R.Gardner to WAS 10 for 9 yards (30-L.Frazier; 31-Ro.Williams).
PENALTY on WAS-87-R.Gardner, Face Mask (5 Yards), 5 yards, enforced at WAS 10.
1-6-WAS 5 (4:07) 46-L.Betts up the middle to WAS 6 for 1 yard (59-D.Nguyen).
2-5-WAS 6 (3:46) 11-P.Ramsey pass to 87-R.Gardner to WAS 10 for 4 yards (30-L.Frazier).
3-1-WAS 10 (3:23) 11-P.Ramsey pass incomplete to 47-C.Cooley. Pass thrown left flat.
4-1-WAS 10 (3:19) 19-T.Tupa punts 36 yards to WAS 46, Center-71-E.Albright, out of bounds.

There could be more because I saw a few instances where there was no name attached to the penalty, and this was just a quick scan of all the game logs on NFL.com.

Names I saw frequently, Raymer, Dockery, Taylor and Ray Brown. Taylor mostly for unsportsmanlike conduct type stuff.

TheMalcolmConnection · 01-26-2005, 11:52 AM

From what I remember, those illegal motion penalties were typical ref BS and that facemask penalty I think was also very BS too.

I remember most of our penalties being on Ray Brown for false starts (especially in the red zone).

rdsknfn2003 · 01-26-2005, 02:15 PM

"And I will never apologize for thinking that trading/cutting Portis, Coles, and/or LaVar is a good idea." This is why the skins wont trade for that punk. For another he has no respect for himself or team. Besides the Viks need defence and that is what the Viks will trade for along with a 1st rounder.

View Poll Results: If the price was right, would you want Randy Moss on the 'Skins?
Yes	19	33.93%
No	37	66.07%
Voters: 56. You may not vote on this poll

01-25-2005, 11:29 AM	#5
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Charlottesville, Virginia Age: 44 Posts: 19,264	Rudy was a hard worker and he only got to play 1 play for Notre Dame. __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

01-25-2005, 10:46 PM	#8
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Charlottesville, Virginia Age: 44 Posts: 19,264	Honestly, I don't want Gardener gone, I'M just talking as though it is an inevitability. In a perfect world, EVERYONE comes back, we draft a great DE, get a good center and all is right in the world. __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

01-26-2005, 11:52 AM	#14
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Charlottesville, Virginia Age: 44 Posts: 19,264	From what I remember, those illegal motion penalties were typical ref BS and that facemask penalty I think was also very BS too. I remember most of our penalties being on Ray Brown for false starts (especially in the red zone). __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

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01-25-2005, 10:06 AM	#2
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 43 Posts: 8,341	Offiss: Gardner didn't drop many passes later in the season at all. He honestly maybe dropped 5 - 8 more than Coles this year. Nicknames are sometimes a bit unfair, he normally makes the hard catches but is known to drop the easy catches. Rod Gardner isn't exactly the worst we could do. What I was showing was that Rod Gardner shows all the signs of a "Gibbs Guy" that apparently we're so after, yet everyone here want's him gone.

01-25-2005, 10:52 AM	#4
MTK Hail Raiser Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 53 Posts: 100,050	The problem with Rod is how he disappears for long stretches. That may be due to a few reasons, it could be due to the system, it could be due to the QB's not having faith in going his way, or perhaps it's his fault and he's not getting open consistently. It seemed strange that once Ramsey took over Coles' production increased right away and RG totally disappeared. Perhaps Ramsey and Coles have a connection that he doesn't have with RG, but I have a feeling it has more to do with the fact RG isn't known for his precise route running. The bottom line is it's very unlikely we would ink him to a new deal after his deal is up this year, so why not try to see what we can get for him now? He's had one 1000 yard season and his other 3 seasons have been average at best. Not exactly the kind of player you'd want to tie up a lot of money in. He's a decent #2 but it's time to see what other guys can do like Jacobs. It's great that he works hard to improve in practice, but even hard workers get cut/traded. At some point that hard work has to translate in to production on the field, with Rod it's just not happening.

01-25-2005, 08:21 PM	#6
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 43 Posts: 8,341	I'd throw it to Gardner, if he were open. Would he be my first choice? Certainly not. Would anyone on our roster be my first choice? Nope. But I have faith that Rod, Coles, and Cooley could make a big catch in situations like that. Name one game Rod Gardner lost for us. I think he's better than most people want to give him credit for, but he's certainly not a star. Rod made some big catches this year, we seem to conviently forget about those. He ate Dallas alive! Why? We threw to him! I really think he's the type of receiver who needs a lot of balls to get in his groove and if you keep going to him, he'll give you more positives than negatives.

01-26-2005, 08:55 AM	#9
MTK Hail Raiser Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 53 Posts: 100,050	Gardner isn't garbage but we can certainly do better. Rod's had his chance for 4 years now and he's failed to impress in 3 of those seasons. Time to move on.

01-26-2005, 10:01 AM	#10
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 43 Posts: 8,341	You're right about the Giants game, forgot about that. Penelties? I don't remember many penelties on Rod this year, and certainly not after a big play. Maybe one holding penelty while blocking up field. I think he just needs more balls to go his way - how many of our receivers had impressive seasons this year. The answer is 0. Our best receiver seemed to be a rookie H-Back.

01-26-2005, 11:14 AM	#11
MTK Hail Raiser Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 53 Posts: 100,050	You don't remember any penalties on Rod? That's like saying you don't remember Brunell playing poorly. I was impressed with Coles' 90 catches considering the injury he was playing with and a god-awful passing game especially with Brunell in there.

01-26-2005, 11:27 AM	#12
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 43 Posts: 8,341	What was the average YPC, Matty. And I said I don't remember a whole lot of RG penetlies, and I know most of his penelties weren't after the play.

01-26-2005, 11:34 AM	#13
MTK Hail Raiser Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 53 Posts: 100,050	Here's what I found on RG for penalties From the first Giants game: Washington Redskins at 14:15 1-10-NYG 49 (14:15) 11-P.Ramsey pass to 80-L.Coles to NYG 47 for 2 yards (25-W.Allen). 2-8-NYG 47 (13:52) 11-P.Ramsey pass to 26-C.Portis to NYG 44 for 3 yards (25-W.Allen). PENALTY on WAS-87-R.Gardner, Illegal Shift, 5 yards, enforced at NYG 47 - No Play. Browns game: Washington Redskins at 8:53 1-10-WAS 43 (8:53) 8-M.Brunell pass incomplete to 47-C.Cooley. PENALTY on WAS-87-R.Gardner, Illegal Motion, 5 yards, enforced at WAS 43 - No Play. 2nd Philly game: Washington Redskins at 2:56 1-10-WAS 38 (2:56) 26-C.Portis left end to WAS 42 for 4 yards (54-J.Trotter). 2-6-WAS 42 (2:22) 11-P.Ramsey pass to 26-C.Portis pushed ob at WAS 41 for -1 yards (50-M.Simoneau). Timeout #2 by PHI at 02:13. 3-7-WAS 41 (2:13) 11-P.Ramsey pass to 80-L.Coles ran ob at PHI 45 for 14 yards. P8 1-10-PHI 45 (2:08) 11-P.Ramsey pass to 47-C.Cooley to PHI 40 for 5 yards (26-L.Sheppard). Two-Minute Warning 2-5-PHI 40 (2:00) PENALTY on WAS-66-D.Dockery, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at PHI 40 - No Play. 2-10-PHI 45 (2:00) 11-P.Ramsey pass to 80-L.Coles to PHI 25 for 20 yards (26-L.Sheppard). P9 1-10-PHI 25 (1:14) 26-C.Portis left end ran ob at PHI 14 for 11 yards. PENALTY on WAS-85-D.McCants, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at PHI 24. 1-19-PHI 34 (1:09) PENALTY on WAS-87-R.Gardner, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at PHI 34 - No Play. 1-24-PHI 39 (1:09) 11-P.Ramsey pass to 80-L.Coles to PHI 35 for 4 yards (54-J.Trotter). Timeout #2 by WAS at 00:57. 2-20-PHI 35 (:57) 11-P.Ramsey pass to 87-R.Gardner to PHI 25 for 10 yards (26-L.Sheppard). 3-10-PHI 25 (:30) (No Huddle) 11-P.Ramsey pass incomplete to 47-C.Cooley. 4-10-PHI 25 (:24) 10-J.Hall 43 yard field goal is No Good, Wide Right, Center-71-E.Albright, Holder-19-T.Tupa. 2nd Dallas game: Washington Redskins at 5:01 1-10-WAS 1 (5:01) 11-P.Ramsey pass to 87-R.Gardner to WAS 10 for 9 yards (30-L.Frazier; 31-Ro.Williams). PENALTY on WAS-87-R.Gardner, Face Mask (5 Yards), 5 yards, enforced at WAS 10. 1-6-WAS 5 (4:07) 46-L.Betts up the middle to WAS 6 for 1 yard (59-D.Nguyen). 2-5-WAS 6 (3:46) 11-P.Ramsey pass to 87-R.Gardner to WAS 10 for 4 yards (30-L.Frazier). 3-1-WAS 10 (3:23) 11-P.Ramsey pass incomplete to 47-C.Cooley. Pass thrown left flat. 4-1-WAS 10 (3:19) 19-T.Tupa punts 36 yards to WAS 46, Center-71-E.Albright, out of bounds. There could be more because I saw a few instances where there was no name attached to the penalty, and this was just a quick scan of all the game logs on NFL.com. Names I saw frequently, Raymer, Dockery, Taylor and Ray Brown. Taylor mostly for unsportsmanlike conduct type stuff.

01-26-2005, 02:15 PM	#15
rdsknfn2003 Camp Scrub Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Georgia Age: 51 Posts: 72	"And I will never apologize for thinking that trading/cutting Portis, Coles, and/or LaVar is a good idea." This is why the skins wont trade for that punk. For another he has no respect for himself or team. Besides the Viks need defence and that is what the Viks will trade for along with a 1st rounder.

Kornheiser believes Skins would make run at Moss

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