Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by hooskins

Same. Think a name change isn't a big deal. The team is and will be the same to me either way. And I also understand why people think it's offensive.

Yeah, but what do you understand about the name that makes it offensive?

[SirLK26]

Oh, boo-hoo. Anyone who finds the Redskin's name offensive can go sit in a corner and suck their thumb. Anyway, what about the Saints. Do atheists find that name offensive?

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by SirLK26

Oh, boo-hoo. Anyone who finds the Redskin's name offensive can go sit in a corner and suck their thumb. Anyway, what about the Saints. Do atheists find that name offensive?

Amen.....Welcome to the WP!
What part of S Tx you in?

[Leader In Sports]

Some of this post will be obvious to you diehards, but not everyone knows the history of the skins:

George Preston Marshall - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In 1932, he and three other partners were awarded an NFL franchise for Boston. This team became known as the Boston Braves, as they played on the same field as baseball's Boston Braves. Marshall's partners left the team after one season, leaving him in control. In 1933 he moved the team from Braves Field to Fenway Park, changing the team nickname to the Redskins.

Marshall has gained infamy for his intractable opposition to having African-Americans on his roster. According to professor Charles Ross, "For 24 years Marshall was identified as the leading racist in the NFL".

I have many friends that have played for the team and love the history associated with the name. I also see that if you flipped it to another skin color, it may be more clear for others. Tough call when you see both sides of the argument as having merit.

Remember in the 1930's there were many other names for different minority groups. While the groups did not have the political clout to do anything about them at that time, in our era they are considered HIGHLY offensive.

[Evilgrin]

The Skins history is very sordid, but that is part of what makes it so interesting. I'm not proud of the history, but we can't change it, and we should never ever forget it. His racism had a huge part in our rivalry with the Cowboys.

I said earlier in the thread that, its not fair to call people racist for supporting the name. I was probably 20 before I had any idea that it was a racial slur, maybe even older. Different people have totally different perceptions of the word.

All that said, I'm on the side of change the name.

[T.O.Killa]

What would we call them the Washington Indians.

Hail to the Indians.
Hail Vic-tor-y
Braves on the Warpath
Fight for old D.C.
Run or pass and score -- we want a lot more!
Beat 'em, Swamp 'em,
Touchdown! -- Let the points soar!
Fight on, fight on 'Til you have won
Sons of Wash-ing-ton. Fight!, Fight!, Fight!
Hail to the Indians
Hail Vic-tor-y
Braves on the Warpath
Fight for old D.C.

It sucks, I still dont believe the term Redskin is a slur. In my mind it is a term used to describe a warrior. A real tuff dude with an bow and arrow.

[Leader In Sports]

If you look in a thesaurus, "Yellow Man" is a derogatory term for an Asian. Same with Redskin for a Native American. Back when the Redskins were name (1933), Redskin was a common term, as was Yellow Man, the N word (see what I mean) and many other terms that are now offensive.

I personally don't see a problem with a name like the Chiefs, Braves, Warriors etc as they are not negative terms. They are no different than the Raiders, Vikings, Bucs etc.

Look at it this way, would you walk up to a Native American and refer to him as a "Redskin" to his face? That to me is a good way to judge if the term is offensive.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Leader In Sports

If you look in a thesaurus, "Yellow Man" is a derogatory term for an Asian. Same with Redskin for a Native American. Back when the Redskins were name (1933), Redskin was a common term, as was Yellow Man, the N word (see what I mean) and many other terms that are now offensive.

I personally don't see a problem with a name like the Chiefs, Braves, Warriors etc as they are not negative terms. They are no different than the Raiders, Vikings, Bucs etc.

Look at it this way, would you walk up to a Native American and refer to him as a "Redskin" to his face? That to me is a good way to judge if the term is offensive.

I wouldn't walk up to a fat man and call him Giant to his face or a gay man and call him a Packer. Does that mean those team names are offensive too?

Just because a word could bee twisted by a bad person to deride someone else, doesn't mean the word itself is inherently offensive. The word itself is not offensive, was not created to be offensive, and was not viewed as offensive when the name was chosen for the team. If it was, no one would have wanted to play for the team because the players would be associating themselves with something they looked down upon.

[Leader In Sports]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

I wouldn't walk up to a fat man and call him Giant to his face or a gay man and call him a Packer. Does that mean those team names are offensive too?

Just because a word could bee twisted by a bad person to deride someone else, doesn't mean the word itself is inherently offensive. The word itself is not offensive, was not created to be offensive, and was not viewed as offensive when the name was chosen for the team. If it was, no one would have wanted to play for the team because the players would be associating themselves with something they looked down upon.

The difference with your examples and others are the Packers were named after meat packers. The Giants were named after mythical, larger than life figures. Redskins were always intended to represent Native Americans.

[GMScud]

Now comes Florio saying RGIII needs to "do the right thing" and be the catalyst for the name change....

Momentum builds for a Redskins name change, and one man can make it happen | ProFootballTalk

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by GMScud

Now comes Florio saying RGIII needs to "do the right thing" and be the catalyst for the name change....

Momentum builds for a Redskins name change, and one man can make it happen | ProFootballTalk

It's whiners like Florio who don't care if the name changes, he wants to be the guy the floated the idea. It's like the old SF mayor Gavin "douchebag" Newsom started the whole gay marriage movement for his own popularity to get elected governor not because he cared about gay people. Screw those a-holes with their own agenda.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Leader In Sports

The difference with your examples and others are the Packers were named after meat packers. The Giants were named after mythical, larger than life figures. Redskins were always intended to represent Native Americans.

But it was not a racist term at the time it was chosen to name the team, and that's the point. The majority of people who complain about the team name are upper middle class white people who feel taking e position that the name is racist makes them more enlightened than everyone else. One fifth of the world is starving. Millions of people In this country are unemployed, but these people pick the name of a sports team as a cause to rally behind? Find a worthwhile cause and leave the redskins the F alone.

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

I wouldn't walk up to a fat man and call him Giant to his face or a gay man and call him a Packer. Does that mean those team names are offensive too?

Just because a word could bee twisted by a bad person to deride someone else, doesn't mean the word itself is inherently offensive. The word itself is not offensive, was not created to be offensive, and was not viewed as offensive when the name was chosen for the team. If it was, no one would have wanted to play for the team because the players would be associating themselves with something they looked down upon.

Good point. Many have tried to put the word Redskin on equal footing with the N word, but if another team called themselves that in 1933 would it have even been tolerated? Even 1933? Not saying Native Americans shouldn't be offended by the word Redskin, because who's to tell anyone what should or shouldn't offend them, but the word has become far more associated with the football team than as a slur. And don't polls show that most Native Americans aren't offended by the Redskins use of the term?

Although it originated as a derogatory word intended to inflict harm, isn't it possible that the word has evolved into something positive? Or that the use of the word altogether has ceased except in this one particular case?

Someone, some group or society as a whole decided to use the word as a slur. Isn't it possible for another generation's someone, some group or society as a whole to decide it no longer has any application whatsoever as a derogatory word?

I'd hate to see the name changed, but I'm all for eliminating the Indian head logo. I like the R helmet anyway.

I just feel like fans adore the name, because it's associated with the team they love. The negative connotation no longer exists.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by 44Deezel

Good point. Many have tried to put the word Redskin on equal footing with the N word, but if another team called themselves that in 1933 would it have even been tolerated? Even 1933? Not saying Native Americans shouldn't be offended by the word Redskin, because who's to tell anyone what should or shouldn't offend them, but the word has become far more associated with the football team than as a slur. And don't polls show that most Native Americans aren't offended by the Redskins use of the term?

Although it originated as a derogatory word intended to inflict harm, isn't it possible that the word has evolved into something positive? Or that the use of the word altogether has ceased except in this one particular case?

That's actually not true. It did not start as a derogatory term. A a later point, some in pop culture of the day used it as such, but it was short-lived.

Someone, some group or society as a whole decided to use the word as a slur. Isn't it possible for another generation's someone, some group or society as a whole to decide it no longer has any application whatsoever as a derogatory word?

. Excellent point.

I'd hate to see the name changed, but I'm all for eliminating the Indian head logo. I like the R helmet anyway.

I just feel like fans adore the name, because it's associated with the team they love. The negative connotation no longer exists.

I agree with you on both points. I don't have a problem with the logo, other than its a bit dated. I think the R helmet is sick looking. And by saying sick looking, I'm hoping I am not offending anyone who is legitimately suffering from sort of illness. I'm simply using the word the way the kids did when I was growing up, to indicate that I think an idea is really awesome.

And To anyone who thinks the term redskin is currently a racist word, please tell me the last time you heard someone use the word in a derogatory manner. I'm 33 years old and I've never heard the word used in a pejorative way in my life. Not once. Have you? If not, then you need to shut up and get off your high horse or find another team to root for. We don't want you here.

[Leader In Sports]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

That's actually not true. It did not start as a derogatory term. A a later point, some in pop culture of the day used it as such, but it was short-lived.

. Excellent point.



I agree with you on both points. I don't have a problem with the logo, other than its a bit dated. I think the R helmet is sick looking. And by saying sick looking, I'm hoping I am not offending anyone who is legitimately suffering from sort of illness. I'm simply using the word the way the kids did when I was growing up, to indicate that I think an idea is really awesome.

And To anyone who thinks the term redskin is currently a racist word, please tell me the last time you heard someone use the word in a derogatory manner. I'm 33 years old and I've never heard the word used in a pejorative way in my life. Not once. Have you? If not, then you need to shut up and get off your high horse or find another team to root for. We don't want you here.

What part of the country did you grow up? I spent a majority of my childhood out West. Yes, I did hear it as a negative term used to describe people, just like I heard the N word.