Government shutdown 2018

[punch it in]

I had no idea that Putin being a dictator and opposition mysteriously being gunned down in the streets or the absolute greed that thwarts the Russian people was considered conspiracy. I thought it was pretty much accepted as fact? As were Trumps business dealings with these oligarchs? What part do you doubt?

[Chico23231]

"Big win for Republicans as Democrats cave on Shutdown. Now I want a big win for everyone, including Republicans, Democrats and DACA, but especially for our Great Military and Border Security. Should be able to get there. See you at the negotiating table!"

-Moobs and G1 beastie via twitter.

[mooby]

Good morning Chico. Has Trump called out Russia on trying to influence the election yet? Because US intelligence believes Russia has its' fingerprints all over the DNC hacking and mounting a campaign to sway people's opinions through fake news online on places like Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, etc. Ever heard of the TEN_GOP Twitter account that had 600k followers? That was ran by the Russians.

I also believe US intelligence way more than I believe our very stable genius President.
I'm not gonna dispute Trump stepping up our Eastern-Euro defenses is a message, that's a good thing. But Russia has had a manipulation campaign going for a while now.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by mooby

Good morning Chico. Has Trump called out Russia on trying to influence the election yet? Because US intelligence believes Russia has its' fingerprints all over the DNC hacking and mounting a campaign to sway people's opinions through fake news online on places like Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, etc. Ever heard of the TEN_GOP Twitter account that had 600k followers? That was ran by the Russians.

I also believe US intelligence way more than I believe our very stable genius President.
I'm not gonna dispute Trump stepping up our Eastern-Euro defenses is a message, that's a good thing. But Russia has had a manipulation campaign going for a while now.

I wonder what people think our enemies do with themselves. We know our government works to influence both our allies and enemies political systems. Why would our enemies not be doing the same. The whole Russia tried to influence our election theme seems like a kid at recess crying because he gets picked on at dodgeball.

The question of if they were successful or not seems like an indictment of our FBI and the DNC in terms of not taking appropriate steps to protect their data, not some shocking revelation of political intrigue.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I wonder what people think our enemies do with themselves. We know our government works to influence both our allies and enemies political systems. Why would our enemies not be doing the same. The whole Russia tried to influence our election theme seems like a kid at recess crying because he gets picked on at dodgeball.

The question of if they were successful or not seems like an indictment of our FBI and the DNC in terms of not taking appropriate steps to protect their data, not some shocking revelation of political intrigue.

So are you saying we should let it slide because the US does it too? I am saying you literally had a fake news account with 600,000 subscribers tweeting out bullshit that people were literally taking as fact because they thought it was ran by the GOP. Now yes, I blame that much more on Twitter/etc making it easy for bots/people with ill intent than the gov't but you really don't think that's an issue? All this crying about fake news when you literally have Russians spreading fake news to spread discord amongst us? I'm not even putting this all on the right either, it's a widespread problem on both sides. I'm literally dumbfounded you think the spread of misinformation to influence people is akin to kids crying at recess because they got picked on at dodgeball.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by mooby

So are you saying we should let it slide because the US does it too? I am saying you literally had a fake news account with 600,000 subscribers tweeting out bullshit that people were literally taking as fact because they thought it was ran by the GOP. Now yes, I blame that much more on Twitter/etc making it easy for bots/people with ill intent than the gov't but you really don't think that's an issue? All this crying about fake news when you literally have Russians spreading fake news to spread discord amongst us? I'm not even putting this all on the right either, it's a widespread problem on both sides. I'm literally dumbfounded you think the spread of misinformation to influence people is akin to kids crying at recess because they got picked on at dodgeball.

I am saying our electorate is filled with people who can't think and distinguish facts and democracy depends on voters who can think with more than just emotional heart strings.

Do I wish the world was a loving kind place where no country lied or used deceit? Sure. Do I think calling the Russians out for something they have been doing since the cold war days is of major importance? Not really. Putin was the head of the KGB for chrissakes, the things we know he is doing don't even compare to what we can't see.

I also am far more worried that our FBI, and intelligence services seemed to spend more time trying to play political games than actually working with facebook/twitter to take down obvious hacks.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I am saying our electorate is filled with people who can't think and distinguish facts and democracy depends on voters who can think with more than just emotional heart strings.

Do I wish the world was a loving kind place where no country lied or used deceit? Sure. Do I think calling the Russians out for something they have been doing since the cold war days is of major importance? Not really. Putin was the head of the KGB for chrissakes, the things we know he is doing don't even compare to what we can't see.

I also am far more worried that our FBI, and intelligence services seemed to spend more time trying to play political games than actually working with facebook/twitter to take down obvious hacks.

It's interesting that this hasn't happened or been brought to light in the past. It's one common denominator and that's the asshole-in-chief. When multiple sources, both civilian and government are talking about what an asshole or a moron Drumpf is, at what point does that make it true? He's not some savant we're talking about here. I'm semi-young, but I don't recall Bush 1, Clinton, Bush 2 or Obama having his intelligence officers calling them an idiot. Maybe it's the technological society we live in these days...

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by mooby

Good morning Chico. Has Trump called out Russia on trying to influence the election yet? Because US intelligence believes Russia has its' fingerprints all over the DNC hacking and mounting a campaign to sway people's opinions through fake news online on places like Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, etc. Ever heard of the TEN_GOP Twitter account that had 600k followers? That was ran by the Russians.

I also believe US intelligence way more than I believe our very stable genius President.
I'm not gonna dispute Trump stepping up our Eastern-Euro defenses is a message, that's a good thing. But Russia has had a manipulation campaign going for a while now.

Its amazing how now some want to pin the Trump administration as somehow responsible for the Russian attempts of influence of the elections and the DNC hacking...this is the responsibility of the Obama Administration, the Obama State Department and the Obama intelligence agencies. All failed. So own it.


More evidence of Trump completely bashing any narrative of soften of policy towards Russian influence:

Putin: US took 'hostile step' in publishing Russia list - ABC News

Putin: US took 'hostile step' in publishing Russia list.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Its amazing how now some want to pin the Trump administration as somehow responsible for the Russian attempts of influence of the elections and the DNC hacking...this is the responsibility of the Obama Administration, the Obama State Department and the Obama intelligence agencies. All failed. So own it.


More evidence of Trump completely bashing any narrative of soften of policy towards Russian influence:

Putin: US took 'hostile step' in publishing Russia list - ABC News

Putin: US took 'hostile step' in publishing Russia list.

Nope ,wrong again Chico.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/29/polit...ons/index.html

Deadline looms for Trump to issue further sanctions against Russia over election meddling | The Independent

[mooby]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Its amazing how now some want to pin the Trump administration as somehow responsible for the Russian attempts of influence of the elections and the DNC hacking...this is the responsibility of the Obama Administration, the Obama State Department and the Obama intelligence agencies. All failed. So own it.


More evidence of Trump completely bashing any narrative of soften of policy towards Russian influence:

Putin: US took 'hostile step' in publishing Russia list - ABC News

Putin: US took 'hostile step' in publishing Russia list.

That's fine, we can blame it on Obama if you want to feel better. How does that solve the problem?

S/N how does Trump not enforcing sanctions after Congress voted 98-2 to sanction Russia help as well? The one thing we managed to make Congress agree upon and yet it still won't go into action lol.

[BaltimoreSkins]

It's funny because I remember it the other way with Reagan and Clinton. Reagan being responsible for economic progress (we were told it just took to the early 90s for it to progress) and the end of the cold war. Clinton was the poster child for infidelity and bashed repeatedly by the media for it. I guess that goes to your point about how we can look at the same media sources and see bias.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by BaltimoreSkins

It's funny because I remember it the other way with Reagan and Clinton. Reagan being responsible for economic progress (we were told it just took to the early 90s for it to progress) and the end of the cold war. Clinton was the poster child for infidelity and bashed repeatedly by the media for it. I guess that goes to your point about how we can look at the same media sources and see bias.

Good points

[MTK]

Originally Posted by BaltimoreSkins

It's funny because I remember it the other way with Reagan and Clinton. Reagan being responsible for economic progress (we were told it just took to the early 90s for it to progress) and the end of the cold war. Clinton was the poster child for infidelity and bashed repeatedly by the media for it. I guess that goes to your point about how we can look at the same media sources and see bias.

Yeah Clinton was absolutely roasted in the media. Funny how we forget.

[CRedskinsRule]

It's a ridiculous notion to think that somehow Russia has been let off the hook by Pres. Trump, any more than when HC called for a reset



or Pres. Obama told them off camera that he would be in a better position to help after the election.



It's always a fine line with Russia, you want them to be good actors, and you offer carrots for that behaviour, but you also have to call them out when they do stupid shit. So far, in my opinion, he has not acted way out of line of past state actors.

[Giantone]

None of that answers' Mooby's question though.

"That's fine, we can blame it on Obama if you want to feel better. How does that solve the problem?

S/N how does Trump not enforcing sanctions after Congress voted 98-2 to sanction Russia help as well? The one thing we managed to make Congress agree upon and yet it still won't go into action lol."