Should Mike Shanahan be fired?

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Then why do teams like the Pats, Steelers, Giants, reload and not rebuild? They have bright folks running the organization who empower smart hard-working guys to do their homework and then they listen to them. They also have great coaching staffs. How is Indy 5-3, is Luck that much better than RG3 (no)? Tampa is playing well, Vikes too. The 49ers were a wreck before Harbaugh, now they're one of the league's best.

No, hiring decisions by Snyder (outside of Gibbs 2.0) are the reason we are where we are. Some his fault (keeping Vinny too long, Zorn in over his head), this one with Shanny not his fault. Shanny just isn't getting it done.

Let me ask you this, what do you see (other than RG3) that gives you hope MS will have the franchise on the right track by the end of next year?

Since you referenced Gibbs 2.0 I will rail once again about how his return to the Redskins set this franchise back 5+ years and we are now suffering from some of the blunderous moves in his era. Let's start with the trading of draft picks for Mark Brunell, then not re-signing Fred Smoot causing a need at CB (which was filled with drafting Rogers rather than drafting Demarcus Ware), then making a pre-draft trade for Denver's first round pick in expectation that their pre determined QB of the future would be there at 25 rather than wait until the day of the draft where they likely would have been able to trade into the 1st round to draft Aaron Rodgers instead of Campbell who went one pick later. TJ Duckett anyone? How about the fact that over a 4 year span he drafted 21 players? How about over those 21 draft picks only 6 were in the first 3 rounds? Not to mention when he left, it was an old, expensive team built for a 2007 playoff run. Vinny further screwed the team with awful 2008 and 2009 drafts that yielded 3 players still on the roster.

The point of this isn't to 'blame' the past but in response to 'why can't this team turn things around like others'? Why do the Pats, Steelers and Giants reload rather than rebuild? Because they have a consistent program, a foundation to build from. The Pats have a consistent program that's been in place for over a decade. The Steelers have had consistency in their philosophy since the 90's. The Giants are on the third generation of their philosophy from George Young, who taught Ernie Acorsi who taught Jerry Reese. We haven't had that, not even close.

The 49ers had a ton of early first round picks that finally came together last year under Harbaugh, that's how they came together. The Colts this year, while surprising were a playoff team 2 years ago and were awful because they had no QB. Tampa and the Vikings (2 of our wins coincidentally) are inconsistent because they are still learning to win as well.

It may not seem like it after the past 2 games but our future is bright. We have 3 foundation pieces in place (QB, LT, RB) with potentially a pass rushing duo that when healthy can be very productive. As Schefter said last week, is there another team in the division with a more promising future than us? Why derail it by throwing out the system and starting all over again, again!?!

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Bucket

Now who's being sarcastic?

Truth hurts.. Iv'e said it before. Shanahan was handed the keys to a volvo and asked to win the Indy 500. That's the type of fan base we have here in Redskins Nation. He was doomed from the start, and never had a chance. Since the day he was hired people were making threads about

"Why not Bill Cowher?"
"Should of got Gruden"

etc
etc

I know everyone can't be happy, and Shanahan said it best in today's presser, and I qoute..

"When i got here this team was old, and had no depth. Out of all the players we released none of them played in the NFL anymore. That includes the whole offense in which not one player was from that era. Offense, Defense, Special Teams was all old and there was no depth."

That's a 53 man roster in which draft picks were slim, and free agency was worse. A 53 man roster in which he's had to build in a course of 2 offseasons, and you think he doesn't wan't to grab every A list guy available? Truth is.. You can't fill that many spots with all talent in such a short amount of time.

People talk like 2.5 years is a long time to turn a franchise around. Those same people are the SAME ones who wanted Gabbert, and the media included call the coaches/front office last year while Rex/Beck lost many games. Now, we are a young team with still below average depth who is injury riddled and most of Redskins Nation blames Shanahan for that too. Like he was walking around smashing players with hammers to put them on the IR.

People compare to other franchises, and don't realize that every franchise goes a different direction, plays different teams, and picks different players. We are not Green Bay, and we may NEVER be Green Bay or the Giants. Our franchise is not in the shape that those were when they suffered injuries.

The lack of patience in this community of Redskins fans is a main reason why we are in the state we are now. The man didn't LIE to anyone.. He didn't promise wins since day one. He didn't come in to the office and promise us Super Bowls in 2.5 years. He said he needed 5 years, and when we brought him in to bring in HIS system, and his style of coaching then we allowed him and said we UNDERSTOOD what state this team is in, and now as fans we are shitting and pissing in his face while not supporting him because you can't accept and handle the losses that have to come before the wins.

I'm giving the man his 5 years... I accepted his word that it would take that long at least.

I agree with this post other then saying he was doomed from the start.

[CultBrennan59]

Reading some of these posts on here makes me think I'm dealing with this guy on this site

[punch it in]

I mean who besides possibly Marty Schottenheimer did we pull the plug on too fast in the last 20 years after Gibbs that leads so many of you to believe there needs to be a "culture change" with the revolving door of coaches?
Richie Petitbon?
Terry Robiskie?
Norv had forever.
Spurrier
Zorn
Gibbs 2.0 - wasnt sticking around anyway
None of those guys were shit. None of them would have won or changed the culture if we had kept them around. They were all bad choices. What kind of thought goes into a statement about pulling the plug on Shanny and what kind of detriment that will have on the team? Apparently it has nothing to do with the last 20 years even though this is "typical " Redskin fans unfaithful itchy trigger finger bullshit. Yeah I guess your rite - wish we had held onto Terry Robiskie or Steve Spurrier! What a mistake.

[Mechanix544]

Originally Posted by punch it in

I mean who besides possibly Marty Schottenheimer did we pull the plug on too fast in the last 20 years after Gibbs that leads so many of you to believe there needs to be a "culture change" with the revolving door of coaches?
Richie Petitbon?
Terry Robiskie?
Norv had forever.
Spurrier
Zorn
Gibbs 2.0 - wasnt sticking around anyway
None of those guys were shit. None of them would have won or changed the culture if we had kept them around. They were all bad choices. What kind of thought goes into a statement about pulling the plug on Shanny and what kind of detriment that will have on the team? Apparently it has nothing to do with the last 20 years even though this is "typical " Redskin fans unfaithful itchy trigger finger bullshit. Yeah I guess your rite - wish we had held onto Terry Robiskie or Steve Spurrier! What a mistake.

The difference between the above mentioned and the atrocity called Mike Shanahan is that the above guys didn't have the luxury of being handed the best QB in the history of the game (arguably, top 5 no argument), riding him and Terell Davis to two Super Bowls, and then in 14 years after that man retires, said coach wins ONE playoff game. ONE!!!!!!!!! But the above mentioned didnt have the success in 96-98, so Mike gets a pass, cause he has proven in the subsequent 14 years that he knows how to team build. He didn't even have to build a majority of the team in Denver, they had been to plenty of playoffs before Mike.

Face it kids, the longer mike grinds the gears here in DC, the longer its gonna take for WHOEVER to fix it. (RG3. Too bad he cannot overcome mount shanahan for a shot at being competitive now)

[jdc65]

I know as a fan it is disconcerting to start over with a new coach. New coach means new systems meaning new players brought in to fit the new systems. It does feel like starting all over from scratch again. On the surface, it would appear that 2 more years with Shanny is better than 2-3 years with a new guy.

But football is about good players playing with confidence, emotion, motivation, and belief in what they are doing. Players also need to feel the organization is doing the best job they can to bring in the right pieces to win. If they lose that confidence or start doubting the direction, it is virtually impossible to be successful.

As fans, we don't know exactly what the players are thinking, but typically when someone on the outside is asking questions, it's a good bet that those on the inside are asking them to. At this point, fans have a reason to ask if the team is heading in the right direction. It's only natural the players may be asking as well.

I take Shanahan's remarks as he isn't sure if players are still buying into what he is selling, and he is putting them on notice. That he is worried about losing the lockerroom, and the character issue is more about playing within the schemes than playing hard.

If players decide the coach is a goner or the scheme is broke or other players aren't cutting it, they'll play for themselves. Which means bypasssing specific assignments and taking risks to make a big play. That very well is what appears to me to be happening, and a justifiable reason to consider making a change.

[skinsfaninok]

Problem is most fans have just gotten so used to losing that shanny isn't any different than previous coaches so why make a change?

[punch it in]

Bucket lets not blame the fan base for anything. Shanny is a big boy - i dont think some thread about Gruden ever made it to his desk but if it had im pretty sure it didnt affect his work. Lol. Snyder wants to give him his five years that is fine. I get all the stuff about this team was shit. It was. He inherited a big stinky pile of shit. The problem is that it is not getting incrementally better. It is getting incrementally worse. Do u know what I base that opinion on? Football games. I know - strange rite - to base your opinion of a head coach on how his team performs on the field ( that was big sarcasm). Last week against the Steelers and this week against the Panthers are two of the worst games Ive seen in a while. After this season - which imo is 6 wins - AT BEST - give him two more years. Just so I never have to hear another person say - two more years again.
Edit: also Bucket - you seem to be under this impression that if we shower MS with love and praise he will coach better - i have news for you - he diesnt give a shit what me or you thinks about him. Trust me. Do you really think personnel decisions , etc are based on the court of public opinion? Its the NFL not American ****ing Idol.

[Bucket]

Originally Posted by punch it in

Bucket lets not blame the fan base for anything. Shanny is a big boy - i dont think some thread about Gruden ever made it to his desk but if it had im pretty sure it didnt affect his work. Lol. Snyder wants to give him his five years that is fine. I get all the stuff about this team was shit. It was. He inherited a big stinky pile of shit. The problem is that it is not getting incrementally better. It is getting incrementally worse. Do u know what I base that opinion on? Football games. I know - strange rite - to base your opinion of a head coach on how his team performs on the field ( that was big sarcasm). Last week against the Steelers and this week against the Panthers are two of the worst games Ive seen in a while. After this season - which imo is 6 wins - AT BEST - give him two more years. Just so I never have to hear another person say - two more years again.
Edit: also Bucket - you seem to be under this impression that if we shower MS with love and praise he will coach better - i have news for you - he diesnt give a shit what me or you thinks about him. Trust me. Do you really think personnel decisions , etc are based on the court of public opinion? Its the NFL not American ****ing Idol.

I'm not saying praise the man. Everyone wants him on the chopping block when the man was nothing but honest.

Can you actually say that our team wouldn't be doing better with at least 1-2 or our players on the field? I guess we will find out against the Eagles.

I know Shanahan doesn't give two shits about what we say, but the other realistic fans here do. No, i'm not including you.

[Mechanix544]

Originally Posted by Bucket

I'm not saying praise the man. Everyone wants him on the chopping block when the man was nothing but honest.

Can you actually say that our team wouldn't be doing better with at least 1-2 or our players on the field? I guess we will find out against the Eagles.

I know Shanahan doesn't give two shits about what we say, but the other realistic fans here do. No, i'm not including you.

Wow Bucket, never figured you for a finger pointer nanee nanee boo boo name caller. Nice to know. It's also nice to know that if you are content with continual failure and a sub par product, you are now labeled as being "realistic"

I for one would like to keep my "Unrealistic" banner, wave it from high on the mountain, and hope and pray that my team becomes relevant again.

[jdc65]

It does matter what the fans say or think. Yesterday was a big game for Washington, at home with the 80th anniversary hoopla, playing an apparently inferior opponent in a declared must win situation. They didn't just lose, they lost with unenthusiastic and uninspired play. The stands appeared darn near empty well before the final gun went off. That's money coming out of Snyder's pocket. Uninspired play produces an uninspired fanbase affecting ticket sales, tv and radio ratings, concessions and merchandise sales.

It's still a business, and more than wins or losses, it's about making money. Empty stands and an unhappy, nonspending fanbase are a surefire way to see changes made. November, December, and January is when the big money is made, and for the 3rd year under Shanny, football is irrelevant in DC. Expecting playoff contention in the 3rd year was reasonable, but showing improvement is an absolute must. At least sell hope. Who is going to keep spending money watching this crap?

[That Guy]

punch, why is it so important that you have every other post in this thread?

[GTripp0012]

As far as the offense goes, Brian Kelly/Chuck Martin at Notre Dame are teaching a 19 year old kid to master the back shoulder/front shoulder option nine route that Eli Manning has gotten so good at throwing. And yet, this is too much for RG3 to handle? Nonsense.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

As far as the offense goes, Brian Kelly/Chuck Martin at Notre Dame are teaching a 19 year old kid to master the back shoulder/front shoulder option nine route that Eli Manning has gotten so good at throwing. And yet, this is too much for RG3 to handle? Nonsense.

Great point.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

As far as the offense goes, Brian Kelly/Chuck Martin at Notre Dame are teaching a 19 year old kid to master the back shoulder/front shoulder option nine route that Eli Manning has gotten so good at throwing. And yet, this is too much for RG3 to handle? Nonsense.

unrelated, but don't you think your sig is kinda out dated?

as for your question, has somebody specifically said that RG3 can't handle that? or are you basing it on us not using it, because that could be on the WR's, or the OC just doesn't use it in the game plan. Either one could be an issue obviously, but your question implies that someone came out and said that Griffin isn't learning it quick enough.