It's not Brunell's fault!

[mike340]

Gee, I seem to remember Peyton's was lower. Since you bring this up, and I don't have the videotape, could someone please post the corresponding stat(s) for Peyton, i.e. attempts, completions, and hurries. Thanks.

Originally Posted by Daseal

Yeah, I remember when they showed that. Peytons hit was higher and hurried was the same. Really kept him from doing anything,

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by mike340

Gee, I seem to remember Peyton's was lower. Since you bring this up, and I don't have the videotape, could someone please post the corresponding stat(s) for Peyton, i.e. attempts, completions, and hurries. Thanks.

after the first half it was the same. peyton's better and the colt's DL is better, but honestly, if not for garbage time, brunell would have had another 160 yard game. People around here act like facing a good DE is an automatic excuse for brunell, even though plenty of other teams are able to cope, it's somehow okay that our QB can't. yes, the OL wasn't great, but seriously, less koolaid please, he's just not that good.

[GTripp0012]

I'm not going to bother defending Brunell right now, because no one else around the league thinks this is his fault. The offense is generally very good, and the only thing thats inconsistent about this offense is O Line play. In the first half, it was generally very good, and so was the offense. But in the second half, it wasn't, and neither was the offense. Those guys up front need to play with some more consistency.

As for the D, they took huge strides in the first half this week. As for the 2nd half performance, I don't care who they are playing. Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Terry Bradshaw, Johnny Unitas, Marino, Elway...you DO NOT give up 3 TDs on the first 3 drives of the half that easily. The D Line was a huge bright spot in the first half and when they came out for the 2nd, it was an entirely different unit. They made Addai look like Edge. There are no bright spots on this defense right now.

[EternalEnigma21]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I'm not going to bother defending Brunell right now, because no one else around the league thinks this is his fault. The offense is generally very good, and the only thing thats inconsistent about this offense is O Line play. In the first half, it was generally very good, and so was the offense. But in the second half, it wasn't, and neither was the offense. Those guys up front need to play with some more consistency.

As for the D, they took huge strides in the first half this week. As for the 2nd half performance, I don't care who they are playing. Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Terry Bradshaw, Johnny Unitas, Marino, Elway...you DO NOT give up 3 TDs on the first 3 drives of the half that easily. The D Line was a huge bright spot in the first half and when they came out for the 2nd, it was an entirely different unit. They made Addai look like Edge. There are no bright spots on this defense right now.

We were scared of manning. Gregg Williams was scared. you don't put 3 guys down to rush manning and think you can make a zone blanket he can't pick apart given all day.

The running... well everyone has been doing that to us...

We need to start playing in our opponent's backfield constantly like we did 2 years ago....

[mike340]

Another thing that's happened this year is that Saunders's system doesn't allow for many audibles at the line of scrimmage. Brunell did that (I believe effectively) in prior years. As you saw, Peyton changed many plays at the line of scrimmage. As it is, there is now no way to adjust a play for the defensive set. This has got to make life harder for the offense.

The offense is averaging 20 points/game. 21/game two years ago would have gone 13-2-1. But our defense is allowing 26/game!
Who has allowed more total points than we have(171)? The Jets, Lions, and 49ers. That's it!
To contrast, at Denver's current rate, their defense would take 1 1/2 years to yield 171 points.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by mike340

Another thing that's happened this year is that Saunders's system doesn't allow for many audibles at the line of scrimmage. Brunell did that (I believe effectively) in prior years. As you saw, Peyton changed many plays at the line of scrimmage. As it is, there is now no way to adjust a play for the defensive set. This has got to make life harder for the offense.

The offense is averaging 20 points/game. 21/game two years ago would have gone 13-2-1. But our defense is allowing 26/game!
Who has allowed more total points than we have(171)? The Jets, Lions, and 49ers. That's it!
To contrast, at Denver's current rate, their defense would take 1 1/2 years to yield 171 points.

All good points. As far as MB this week, I'm not sure what you (the Warpath collective) would want from him? More deep incompletions? Is that what makes a great QB? Let's see who can throw down the field out of the reach of everyone. Then the D will really respect us! Sadly, this is really what some of you want.

Brunell went down the field twice in the first half, completed one, and the other seemed like a pretty good throw that Santana almost got to. I think we were all victim of some questionable third down playcalling in the 3rd Quarter.

The guy is averageing OVER 7 yards an attempt (7.11 yards/attempt) on the year with less than a pick every two games. (For comparisons sake: Peyton Manning 7.87, Tom Brady 6.49, Jake Delhomme 6.62, Drew Bledsoe 6.71, Brett Favre 6.22) Hell, with those stats, I'd throw every play if I didn't have CP in the backfield.

So why throw down the field anymore than they are? If the offense is based on safe passes (which it is), and the goal of the offense is to move the ball efficently (which they have been doing), why the hell is a lack of fly routes a problem?

There is a lot to like about the offense from this game. Cooley appears to be reemerging. Brunell is spreading the ball, as Randle El, Moss, Lloyd, Betts, Portis, and Cooley all caught multiple passes. They go up and down the field with relative ease. I think the OLine struggled in the 2nd half and Brunell got beat up.

But if 73% completion and an interceptionless game doesn't satisfy you, then I mean WHAT THE HELL WOULD?

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

All good points. As far as MB this week, I'm not sure what you (the Warpath collective) would want from him? More deep incompletions? Is that what makes a great QB? Let's see who can throw down the field out of the reach of everyone. Then the D will really respect us! Sadly, this is really what some of you want.

Brunell went down the field twice in the first half, completed one, and the other seemed like a pretty good throw that Santana almost got to. I think we were all victim of some questionable third down playcalling in the 3rd Quarter.

The guy is averageing OVER 7 yards an attempt (7.11 yards/attempt) on the year with less than a pick every two games. (For comparisons sake: Peyton Manning 7.87, Tom Brady 6.49, Jake Delhomme 6.62, Drew Bledsoe 6.71, Brett Favre 6.22) Hell, with those stats, I'd throw every play if I didn't have CP in the backfield.

So why throw down the field anymore than they are? If the offense is based on safe passes (which it is), and the goal of the offense is to move the ball efficently (which they have been doing), why the hell is a lack of fly routes a problem?

There is a lot to like about the offense from this game. Cooley appears to be reemerging. Brunell is spreading the ball, as Randle El, Moss, Lloyd, Betts, Portis, and Cooley all caught multiple passes. They go up and down the field with relative ease. I think the OLine struggled in the 2nd half and Brunell got beat up.

But if 73% completion and an interceptionless game doesn't satisfy you, then I mean WHAT THE HELL WOULD?

is this a joke? i really hope it is.

if you can't complete deep, no one is going to keep guys out of the box. you're mistaking stats for facts. the stats are nice, but they're garbage. without the last drive, he has 160 yards for the game. he kept throwing for 4 yards when he needed 8. he refuses to throw over the middle of the field. he refuses to throw deep. it looks like he's just out there to be out there. his numbers are more YAC inflated than most.


and no, qbs on bad teams rack up a LOT more garbage time stats on winning teams.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by That Guy

he refuses to throw over the middle of the field. he refuses to throw deep. it looks like he's just out there to be out there. his numbers are more YAC inflated than most.

So a lot of people like to say Brunell either refuses to throw deep or is scared to, but isn't it entirely possible that's what's being asked of him? I mean, what happens if Campbell comes in and starts doing the same thing? Then what do we say?

[Twilbert07]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

So a lot of people like to say Brunell either refuses to throw deep or is scared to, but isn't it entirely possible that's what's being asked of him? I mean, what happens if Campbell comes in and starts doing the same thing? Then what do we say?

I would hope he's being ask to win, and he ain't doing that at 2-5.

[T.A.P.O.A.F.O.R.]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

So a lot of people like to say Brunell either refuses to throw deep or is scared to, but isn't it entirely possible that's what's being asked of him? I mean, what happens if Campbell comes in and starts doing the same thing? Then what do we say?

chicken or egg? possibly it's being asked of him because the coaching staff feels that's what's suited to his skills.

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

So a lot of people like to say Brunell either refuses to throw deep or is scared to, but isn't it entirely possible that's what's being asked of him? I mean, what happens if Campbell comes in and starts doing the same thing? Then what do we say?

what do we say?

what every Brunell defender on warpath has been saying when making excuses for MB. "it takes a year to learn Saunder's new offense". which i never quite understood because that meant Brunell would've mastered it by the ripe age of 37...

regardless, losing teaching this offense to Campbell is much better for us than losing teaching Brunell.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by That Guy

is this a joke? i really hope it is.

if you can't complete deep, no one is going to keep guys out of the box. you're mistaking stats for facts. the stats are nice, but they're garbage. without the last drive, he has 160 yards for the game. he kept throwing for 4 yards when he needed 8. he refuses to throw over the middle of the field. he refuses to throw deep. it looks like he's just out there to be out there. his numbers are more YAC inflated than most.


and no, qbs on bad teams rack up a LOT more garbage time stats on winning teams.

But he did complete deep. Weren't you watching? And for your garbage time arguement, without it, he now has a ridiculously low TOP for the game, and consequently a low attempts number. I don't know if you think the Colts stopped trying or something, but I don't think garbage time should be discredited simply because the D is no longer blitzing anymore.

I enjoy your tell it like it is style, That Guy, but I'm afraid your garbage time arguement holds little water. The game is 60 minutes long, but realistically, we were dead in the water after 38. Brunell endured a few series in which he was fighting a losing battle simply because Freeney and Co. were pinning their ears back. He was playing much of the half without Portis and got killed. So I would argue that the garbage time actually should have HURT his stats overall. And with all that beating, poor pass blocking, and stiff defense, he still kept the ball out of the defenses hands and kept completeing passes.

Oh yeah, I would like to see your response to your last four sentences had someone else said them. You would probably tear them and their generalizations apart.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

But he did complete deep. Weren't you watching? And for your garbage time arguement, without it, he now has a ridiculously low TOP for the game, and consequently a low attempts number. I don't know if you think the Colts stopped trying or something, but I don't think garbage time should be discredited simply because the D is no longer blitzing anymore.

I enjoy your tell it like it is style, That Guy, but I'm afraid your garbage time arguement holds little water. The game is 60 minutes long, but realistically, we were dead in the water after 38. Brunell endured a few series in which he was fighting a losing battle simply because Freeney and Co. were pinning their ears back. He was playing much of the half without Portis and got killed. So I would argue that the garbage time actually should have HURT his stats overall. And with all that beating, poor pass blocking, and stiff defense, he still kept the ball out of the defenses hands and kept completeing passes.

Oh yeah, I would like to see your response to your last four sentences had someone else said them. You would probably tear them and their generalizations apart.

if we had more consistant production we'd have a higher TOP. and garbage time = prevent defense = the defense giving you the 5 and 6 yard plays. and that's more or less what we got. 1 TD after their D had completely let up, and it looked like the skins were barely even trying. and I wouldn't tear generalizations apart if they're true. we don't throw deep, not compared to other NFL teams, and we don't throw over the middle, and haven't for quite a while.

fighting a losing battle is meaningless. that whole part of your arguement is skewed, because in the prevent they weren't rushing nearly as much, and if he completed deep earlier, they'd back off the line and he wouldn't have to throw nearly every down. prevent defenses almost never hurt stats, since shallow completions are almost given away.

[EternalEnigma21]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

But if 73% completion and an interceptionless game doesn't satisfy you, then I mean WHAT THE HELL WOULD?

A FUCKING WIN WOULD!!! to answer you all caps questions...

I don't care what his stats are, he sucks and there are no stats you can throw out at me or the thousands of others that see the same thing.

wait a minute..... Mark, is that you????

[dmek25]

those 5 yard passes were pretty obvious yasterday when even aikman was wondering out loud about them. 3 steps and the ball comes out isnt going to win alot of games in the nfl.