Lemar Marshall released for Randall Godfrey??

[wilsowilso]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Marshall has been downright terrible against the pass the last two seasons. Ranked 95th among LBs in pass yards against last season (9.2), 104th in 2005 (8.1).

Against the run last season, Marshall was pretty bad. He was better in 2005, but still pretty overrated. Lavar was a beast (when he played) here in 2005, and I'm guessing that some of that perception rubbed off on Lemar (Including me, I thought he was much better than he was).

His best season as a pro was that pro bowl caliber 2004 he had on the weakside.

I know he was a converted safety, but he can't cover anyone. Perhaps why he was converted?

Thank you. He was an alright player. He did an admirable job and I wish him luck on finding another NFL job, but this is not any kind of shocking news.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by wilsowilso

Thank you. He was an alright player. He did an admirable job and I wish him luck on finding another NFL job, but this is not any kind of shocking news.

It's shocking only because as fans we tend to overvalue our own players.

In reality Marshall is probably not considered to be starting material for most teams. He's a backup.

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Marshall has been downright terrible against the pass the last two seasons. Ranked 95th among LBs in pass yards against last season (9.2), 104th in 2005 (8.1).

Against the run last season, Marshall was pretty bad. He was better in 2005, but still pretty overrated. Lavar was a beast (when he played) here in 2005, and I'm guessing that some of that perception rubbed off on Lemar (Including me, I thought he was much better than he was).

His best season as a pro was that pro bowl caliber 2004 he had on the weakside.

I know he was a converted safety, but he can't cover anyone. Perhaps why he was converted?

That stat can be a little misleading in that GW had him singled up on WRs a lot. That's asking a bit much of any LB. I remember him having to cover Jerry Porter of the Raiders one on one down the middle. Not a chance. Later that year, the Eagles got the same matchup in the season finale and the Seahawks got it in the playoffs as well. WR matched up down the middle with Lemar. I remember thinking, GW is being catalogued. He's calling the same defense in the same situations too much. The opposing coaches are loving that film.

The way I see it, Marshall played well outside, but the move to mike never really took. I am surprised by his release, though, because he knows the system and could have filled in anywhere. I think the earlier point was important, though too. It probably just came down to him being outplayed by the younger guys in camp, coupled with an opportunity to pick up Godfrey who has a skill set they think can fill a role in some package they are worried about. (However, if they think Randall Godfrey can cover the deep middle by himself, they will be disappointed again)

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

GTripp,

I appreciate that you back up your claims with stats, but I definately believe that stats can and oftentimes do lie. How exactly do your stats determine how good someone is in coverage? Are the statmakers privy to our playcalls so they can decide who is and who is not responsible for X offensive player or X area of the field? Or, do the statmakers simply divine what the playcalling was based on game tape?

Moreover, those stats likely do not account for what the coaches are asking players to do. For example, you will never see Trotter asked to cover WRs downfield. Conversely, Marshall was frequently asked to cover WRs downfield. Just because Marshall gets a pass completed on him 20 yards downfield, whereas Trotter does not, does not mean that Trotter is better than Marshall in coverage. So sorry, but I've got to call B.S.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

GTripp,

I appreciate that you back up your claims with stats, but I definately believe that stats can and oftentimes do lie. How exactly do your stats determine how good someone is in coverage? Are the statmakers privy to our playcalls so they can decide who is and who is not responsible for X offensive player or X area of the field? Or, do the statmakers simply divine what the playcalling was based on game tape?

You have to admit though, yards against per pass attempt is a better metric than "he was a safety in college". As 70 chip pointed out, it can be skewed in a small sample by matchups.

The reason I can say confidently that Lemar was bad in coverage is because he started two full seasons, and the pass coverage data is nearly identical. He's not good at it. If it was conflicting, I'd prefer a wait and see approach with him. But that was 2006. We did wait and see, and we were not only horrible covering backs and tight ends, but Holdman and Marshall were clearly the problems. Washington gets no blame in this, he was quite literally double as effective vs the pass last year as the other two guys.

It will be better with Fletch and Rocky there, a lot better.

[RMSkins]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Marshall has been downright terrible against the pass the last two seasons. Ranked 95th among LBs in pass yards against last season (9.2), 104th in 2005 (8.1).

Against the run last season, Marshall was pretty bad. He was better in 2005, but still pretty overrated. Lavar was a beast (when he played) here in 2005, and I'm guessing that some of that perception rubbed off on Lemar (Including me, I thought he was much better than he was).

His best season as a pro was that pro bowl caliber 2004 he had on the weakside.

I know he was a converted safety, but he can't cover anyone. Perhaps why he was converted?

Can I ask you where you got those stats from? I think it would be interesting to look at.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by RMSkins

Can I ask you where you got those stats from? I think it would be interesting to look at.

Pro Football Prospectus 2007.

You can get it at any bookstore, but I'd be happy to give you identical metrics on any player in the league right now to save time.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I think we are overanalyzing this. The simplest answer to why he got cut is that he was outplayed in camp.

This offseason, we've made a significant effort to find LBs who are good vs. the pass. Fletcher, we made a run at Briggs, drafting Sartz and Blades, two very underrated cover LBs, who dropped due to size. For two straight years now, Marshall has been awful against the pass. While his prowess against the run could have justified the 4th LB spot, its possible he didn't "fit" our new defense.

Good points. The writing should have been on the wall when they drafted all of those linebackers this year.

[Paintrain]

The timing of it is curious.. Why cut him now rather than after the next game unless it was just so obvious he was not going to make the team?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

The timing of it is curious.. Why cut him now rather than after the next game unless it was just so obvious he was not going to make the team?

Because we've seen a lot of Lemar Marshall. If we are only going to keep 6-7 LBs, and you have Godfrey now along with Sartz, Blades, Trucks, Washington, Fletcher, and Rocky Mac, and we think Godfrey is an upgrade over Marshall, then why not make it.

Now is Godfrey an upgrade over Marshall? I'd say probably, but it is pretty late here to add him and have him learn the system overnight. Though he has played for Grilliams in the past.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Because we've seen a lot of Lemar Marshall. If we are only going to keep 6-7 LBs, and you have Godfrey now along with Sartz, Blades, Trucks, Washington, Fletcher, and Rocky Mac, and we think Godfrey is an upgrade over Marshall, then why not make it.

Now is Godfrey an upgrade over Marshall? I'd say probably, but it is pretty late here to add him and have him learn the system overnight. Though he has played for Grilliams in the past.

What have we seen of Godfrey to think he's an upgrade? I would think if he's an upgrade, then that places him in "starters" category. And if he's good enough to start, why has he been bouncing around the league for the past five years? Unless it's an obvious upgrade, then it's not an upgrade in my opinion. Godfrey won't even if be Skin next year...hell, he might not even make through camp.

Obviously the coaches are privy to something that we aren't as fans.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

What have we seen of Godfrey to think he's an upgrade? I would think if he's an upgrade, then that puts him "starters" category. And if he's good enough to start, why has he been bouncing around the league for the past five years? Unless it's an obvious upgrade, then it's not an upgrade in my opinion. Godfrey won't even if be Skin next year...hell, he might not even make through camp.

Obviously the coaches are privy to something that we aren't as fans.

I don't think he's starters material. I don't know a lot about Godfrey, but I can only see him here one season. At age 34, he provides immediate depth at all the positions Lemar did.

Either way, Godfrey probably won't be around next season, and Marshall wouldn't have been around. I think the thing that the coaching staff is "privy" to, is that Lemar Marshall has been a weak link in the defense for the last two years. Obviously, the collective of the Warpath doesn't think so, and throw me in with the "Lemar is good depth" crowd, but the stats definately support the coaching staff's position, which again, shouldn't be surprising.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Obviously the coaches are privy to something that we aren't as fans.

And that's basically all we have to keep in mind here. I know the armchair GMs are pulling their hair out right now, but I doubt we'll looking back a year from now saying damn, if Marshall were here it would have been a different season.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

And that's basically all we have to keep in mind here. I know the armchair GMs are pulling their hair out right now, but I doubt we'll looking back a year from now saying damn, if Marshall were here it would have been a different season.

LOL!

C'mon Matty, you know if we only win seven games this year, 70% of the Warpath will be all like "It's all Gibbs' fault, he shouldn't have gotten rid of Marshall!"

Seriously though, Lemar was one of my most favored Redskins, but outside of shock value, this is a pretty meaningless transaction from a team standpoint. The Redskins aren't any worse, nor much better at all for this move.

[4mrusmc]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

What have we seen of Godfrey to think he's an upgrade? I would think if he's an upgrade, then that places him in "starters" category. And if he's good enough to start, why has he been bouncing around the league for the past five years? Unless it's an obvious upgrade, then it's not an upgrade in my opinion. Godfrey won't even if be Skin next year...hell, he might not even make through camp.

Obviously the coaches are privy to something that we aren't as fans.

Well said 12th. I woke up this morning and turned on comcast sports network to see Lemar, Golston, and someone else handing out free Redskins book-bags to some elementary school kids. Wow, only to hear later in the day that one (IMHO) of the better OVER acheivers cut. So, he had a down year last year, who didn't?.?. This guy was a play-maker in 05'. Anyway, thanks for the great memories Lemar. Sorry to see you go.