Around the NFL (Week 2)

[BleedBurgundy]

How can Tiki be a hall of famer when he didn't maintain HOF caliber play for more than 4 or 5 years? Had he played 2 or 3 more years and padded his stats a little, then maybe, but there's no way he gets in. To steal a line from Peter King, "Hall of Very Good, not great."

[EternalEnigma21]

yeah tiki could've had a case if he'd hung around for a few more years and racked up some stats, but he shouldnt go. he wasnt elite by any means... and the comparison to young is a little skewed... Young was a backup to a HOFer and when he got his shot he consistantly performed.

remember, when coughlin got the job he brought in Ron Dayne to have a competition with tiki... not because he wanted to motivate tiki, and not to be the number 2 back, but because they didn't believe tiki could be a featured back. Then, he takes the coach that made him into a pro bowler, retires early (announcing it in mid-season) publicly hanging him out to dry... and writes a book about how he was the reason coughlin had a job and if coughlin wasn't there he'd still be playing. another classy move by a giants player.

If you can make a case for Tiki, you should go ahead and make a case for Lavar... he had 4 good years too.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by canthetuna

yeah tiki could've had a case if he'd hung around for a few more years and racked up some stats, but he shouldnt go. he wasnt elite by any means...

If he hung around a little more, he definitely would make it in. Right now, he's 18th in all time rushing list. He was elite from 02-06 including being #1 in 04 and 05 in yards from scrimmage. He's 10th all time in yards from scrimmage. I think those numbers will get him in (albeit barely).

and the comparison to young is a little skewed... Young was a backup to a HOFer and when he got his shot he consistantly performed.

I don't get your point here...I think you forget that Young started in Tampa for 2 years before going to San Fran...then it took him another 5 years before he took over there. While, of course, it's not identical, the comparison is pretty dead on. The fact is, for someone to say (basically) you need bust out of the gates in order to be a Hall of Famer is about as dumb as they come.

remember, when coughlin got the job he brought in Ron Dayne to have a competition with tiki... not because he wanted to motivate tiki, and not to be the number 2 back, but because they didn't believe tiki could be a featured back. Then, he takes the coach that made him into a pro bowler, retires early (announcing it in mid-season) publicly hanging him out to dry... and writes a book about how he was the reason coughlin had a job and if coughlin wasn't there he'd still be playing. another classy move by a giants player.

Well, that's the personal Tiki, and I doubt it will be used against him as much as it will be used to show that Coughlin ran him out. Coughlin will be the scapegoat there. I do agree with you, it was classless...what do you expect from a person in New York?

If you can make a case for Tiki, you should go ahead and make a case for Lavar... he had 4 good years too.

Sorry, that doesn't float with me. Lavar (and mind you, I loved him) NEVER had 100 or more total tackles in a season. That's like saying a running back never got to 1000 yards. The only time Lavar ever ranked in the top ten in anything is ONE year when he had 11 sacks. (2002 if I recall)
Lavar never had 4 consecutive excellent seasons he had 3 good seasons (01-03). Tiki had 5 consecutive excellent seasons and 2 good seasons.

[EternalEnigma21]

The fact is, for someone to say (basically) you need bust out of the gates in order to be a Hall of Famer is about as dumb as they come.

I never said that, I was simply saying the comparison between having half of your starting career be mediocre and the other half be great (yeah he got yards but didnt score alot of tds) and being on the bench behind a HOF qb, and then pulling out a HOF career yourself are two different things...

Sorry, that doesn't float with me. Lavar (and mind you, I loved him) NEVER had 100 or more total tackles in a season. That's like saying a running back never got to 1000 yards. The only time Lavar ever ranked in the top ten in anything is ONE year when he had 11 sacks. (2002 if I recall)
Lavar never had 4 consecutive excellent seasons he had 3 good seasons (01-03). Tiki had 5 consecutive excellent seasons and 2 good seasons.

its all subjective... Im not at all making a case for Lavar, but if I were voting there's no way I say Tiki had a dynamic enough impact on the game to be deserving to be enshrined in the hall of fame... I can think of so many other players that greatly impact the game and tiki's rankings will be falling quickly enough as some of the younger stud running backs get older and knock him down the stat lists... by the time he's considered (not my any means a first ballot consideration) he'll be pretty far down the line...

55 rushing TDs in a 9 year career is far from stellar... and so is 53 fumbles...

Clinton Portis already has 53 rushing tds, and only 16 fumbles.

why dont we compare that to steve youngs 232 tds, and 107 ints...

(I don't need rhetoric on why their stats are different... I'm just illustrating a point...)

anyway, I appreciate the counterpoints... have a great day, and GO SKINS!!!!

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by canthetuna

I never said that, I was simply saying the comparison between having half of your starting career be mediocre and the other half be great (yeah he got yards but didnt score alot of tds) and being on the bench behind a HOF qb, and then pulling out a HOF career yourself are two different things...

I never said you did...that's where the comparison came from, that's why I said it. I'm not arguing that it's two different things, just making the point that you can start out on the bench and still make the hall of fame. That was a stupid comparison, and that's why I made the analogy. You jumped into a conversation between me and someone else not understanding why I said what I said.

its all subjective... Im not at all making a case for Lavar, but if I were voting there's no way I say Tiki had a dynamic enough impact on the game to be deserving to be enshrined in the hall of fame... I can think of so many other players that greatly impact the game and tiki's rankings will be falling quickly enough as some of the younger stud running backs get older and knock him down the stat lists... by the time he's considered (not my any means a first ballot consideration) he'll be pretty far down the line...

I'm not disagreeing with you. But who do you enshrine that retired last year? Slim pickins don't you think?

anyway, I appreciate the counterpoints... have a great day, and GO SKINS!!!!

You too.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

I didn't feel like reading this whole thread, but is it just me or did the Cowboys look pretty bad despite the points the Dolphins just handed them?

[ArtMonkDrillz]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

I didn't feel like reading this whole thread, but is it just me or did the Cowboys look pretty bad despite the points the Dolphins just handed them?

Unfortunately I'm gonna have to go ahead and disagree with you, yeah. I watched most of that game and the cowboys offense (when barber is in the backfield) seemed to really click. I hate to say it but romo made some impressive throws and it seems like he depends on TO enough that I'd be a bit surprised if there is the major melt down that we've all been hoping for.

At the same time, their defense isn't all that good. Trent Green looked like he needs to ride off into the sunset, because it seemed like a half way decent QB could have at least kept that game close.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

I didn't feel like reading this whole thread, but is it just me or did the Cowboys look pretty bad despite the points the Dolphins just handed them?

I think it was a little of both. I think the Fins were playing them tight, then imploded down the wire.

I don't think it was an impressive victory at all.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

I thought Barber played well, but didn't Romo miss like half his throws? The ones that were off were WAY off. The Dolphins dropped at least 3 INTs.

[ArtMonkDrillz]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

I thought Barber played well, but didn't Romo miss like half his throws? The ones that were off were WAY off. The Dolphins dropped at least 3 INTs.

Well, he did only complete about 48% of his passes, so that's not great.
Now that I think about it, I really only watched the second half, when their offense was clicking, so I can't really say how he looked in the first half.

I'm retarded.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Originally Posted by ArtMonkDrillz

Well, he did only complete about 48% of his passes, so that's not great.
Now that I think about it, I really only watched the second half, when their offense was clicking, so I can't really say how he looked in the first half.

I'm retarded.

And how.

Seriously though, it looked easy because the Dolphins were giving them a thirty yard field to work from.

[BDBohnzie]

My observations from yesterday:

- How much harder is Atlanta kicking themselves for letting Schaub go?
- Are the Giants foreshadowing a bad season when they let an injured Eli start instead of the Hefty Lefty?
- Kellen Clemens will be a good QB in this league, and should be the starter by the end of the year. The kid has poise and a great arm. The only thing holding him back is Pennington's ability to rally the troops. If Clemens 1st start was against just about anyone other than the Ravens, he may have pulled that out.
- 96 points between the 2 Ohio teams, 2 Texas teams scored 71 points... On the flip side, 3 NY teams scored 29 points.
- Tennessee has Indy's number...perhaps it's time other teams got Bellichek's video guy?
- The Saints have plummeted back to earth, and will stay there.
- San Fran may just win the NFC West.
- Brady to Moss could very well be something we hear at least once a week all season...until Moss gets hurt or complains about not getting the ball in certain situations.
- The Ade will land on his feet...
- Pittsburgh's jerseys = hideous, Pittsburgh's play = Super Bowl bound. It's all about the big Mo...mentum, and if the Steelers can keep it up (hard to do over 16 games), they look virtually unstoppable.
- Despite the sucess yesterday, Derek Anderson will be holding a clipboard in a few weeks to allow the Golden Boy to play and get blown up.

[EternalEnigma21]

, even though I disagree with the steelers unis... i really liked the yellow helmets...

Originally Posted by BDBohnzie

My observations from yesterday:

- How much harder is Atlanta kicking themselves for letting Schaub go?
- Are the Giants foreshadowing a bad season when they let an injured Eli start instead of the Hefty Lefty?
- Kellen Clemens will be a good QB in this league, and should be the starter by the end of the year. The kid has poise and a great arm. The only thing holding him back is Pennington's ability to rally the troops. If Clemens 1st start was against just about anyone other than the Ravens, he may have pulled that out.
- 96 points between the 2 Ohio teams, 2 Texas teams scored 71 points... On the flip side, 3 NY teams scored 29 points.
- Tennessee has Indy's number...perhaps it's time other teams got Bellichek's video guy?
- The Saints have plummeted back to earth, and will stay there.
- San Fran may just win the NFC West.
- Brady to Moss could very well be something we hear at least once a week all season...until Moss gets hurt or complains about not getting the ball in certain situations.
- The Ade will land on his feet...
- Pittsburgh's jerseys = hideous, Pittsburgh's play = Super Bowl bound. It's all about the big Mo...mentum, and if the Steelers can keep it up (hard to do over 16 games), they look virtually unstoppable.
- Despite the sucess yesterday, Derek Anderson will be holding a clipboard in a few weeks to allow the Golden Boy to play and get blown up.

[redsk1]

My first thoughts on the Dallas/Dolphins:

I was hoping the Fins D would stop the Boys O. I guess I was wrong. This makes me worry about our offense even more. Dallas carved up the Fins in the 2nd half. We could only score 13pts at home in regular time/16 in OT. AGGGGGGGGHHH...

I hate philly...I'm looking forward to game...except for Jaws drooling over McNabb for 3 hours.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by redsk1

My first thoughts on the Dallas/Dolphins:

I was hoping the Fins D would stop the Boys O. I guess I was wrong. This makes me worry about our offense even more. Dallas carved up the Fins in the 2nd half. We could only score 13pts at home in regular time/16 in OT. AGGGGGGGGHHH...

I hate philly...I'm looking forward to game...except for Jaws drooling over McNabb for 3 hours.

We carved up the fins in the 2nd half too, wore em down & ran for 191 yards. Overall we had more total yds. vs. them than the boys did, though we had OT.

Dallas didn't dominate them, T. Green just gave them so many gifts. He played much better vs. us than the boys.
What surprises me to this point is how much Dallas D is giving up. I thought they would be really tough right out of the gate.

On the other hand, Romo & the O look really good.