Who called the 2nd timeout?

[redsk1]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Sorry if this has already been mentioned but what's up with the fact that Gibbs asked the ref if he could take back to back timeouts and the ref said yes??

He should know the rule, period or his coaches should be in his ear. No excuse for that. I don't quite understand how we can side w/ JG's on this one, he blew it.

The ref may have answered the question, w/ yes you can call a timeout w/out adding the fact there is a penalty.

Their kicker probably would have made it anyhow.

[SuperFan99]

Gibbs called both and, frankly, I think it's one of the stupidest coaching moves I've ever seen. No excuse. Everyone knows you can't call 2 timeouts in a row.

You learn that in grad school. And he's a HOF coach!

[SmootSmack]

So we're just going to completely absolve the defense for that 30 yard pass to Reed before the field goal attempt? There were like 6 Redskins around him and not a single one can make a play on the ball? And that's ok?

And by the way the Cardinals are 6-6 and just beat the potentially playoff bound Browns. And the Jets beat the playoff bound Steelers. Point is, I'm tired of having to apologize for our victories. We're 5-7. Yes that sucks, but don't just discredit their wins because they weren't "impressive" enough for you.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

So we're just going to completely absolve the defense for that 30 yard pass to Reed before the field goal attempt? There were like 6 Redskins around him and not a single one can make a play on the ball? And that's ok?

And by the way the Cardinals are 6-6 and just beat the potentially playoff bound Browns. And the Jets beat the playoff bound Steelers. Point is, I'm tired of having to apologize for our victories. We're 5-7. Yes that sucks, but don't just discredit their wins because they weren't "impressive" enough for you.

While I agree that was a bad play but the D held the Bills to 15 points so it goes back on the O. I give Gibbs a "by" for that mistake but those three running plays before that was just very bad coaching. We could not run the ball all game and just needed one first down.

[redsk1]

Originally Posted by firstdown

While I agree that was a bad play but the D held the Bills to 15 points so it goes back on the O. I give Gibbs a "by" for that mistake but those three running plays before that was just very bad coaching. We could not run the ball all game and just needed one first down.

Amen. I blame the coaching and the O on this one. When it comes down to crunch time we're running the ball. Even when we've averaged 2 yards a carry.

[MTK]

I don't see what's wrong with asking a ref for clarification, again they do this all the time. Yes Gibbs should have known the rule, but if he wasn't clear and asked the ref and the ref says yes, you can call a time out, I think some blame has to be placed on the ref for misinforming the coach.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I don't see what's wrong with asking a ref for clarification, again they do this all the time. Yes Gibbs should have known the rule, but if he wasn't clear and asked the ref and the ref says yes, you can call a time out, I think some blame has to be placed on the ref for misinforming the coach.

We'll agree to disagree, the official has no culpability the way I see it.. Clarification is one thing, this rule doesn't leave any room to interpretation or clarification IMO-You can't call consecutive timeouts to freeze a kicker. Calling consecutive timeouts is unsportsmanlike conduct and will result in a 15 yard penalty. There's nothing vague or open to clarification there.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

We'll agree to disagree, the official has no culpability the way I see it.. Clarification is one thing, this rule doesn't leave any room to interpretation or clarification IMO-You can't call consecutive timeouts to freeze a kicker. Calling consecutive timeouts is unsportsmanlike conduct and will result in a 15 yard penalty. There's nothing vague or open to clarification there.

If you are unsure of a rule and you ask a ref, and he gives you wrong info, I think there's some responsibility there.

Aren't the refs there to officiate the game and to properly interpret the rules of the game, and to communicate the rules to the players, coaches, and audience? I think a coach asking the ref about a rule would fall under that level of responsibility.

I just find it odd and a little disturbing that Gibbs may have been given wrong info that led to a critical mistake.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I don't see what's wrong with asking a ref for clarification, again they do this all the time. Yes Gibbs should have known the rule, but if he wasn't clear and asked the ref and the ref says yes, you can call a time out, I think some blame has to be placed on the ref for misinforming the coach.

Matty, I'm with you all the way on this one. In every situation, if a player or coach tries to call consecutive timeouts, then it's up to the official, upon hearing the request, to deny the timeout, continue with the play, and explain that taking consecutive timeouts is illegal.

Clearly, the official who stopped the play the second time didn't know the rule either. When getting the signal from Gibbs to take the second timeout, he never should have waved his arms to cease play and stop the clock. All he had to say is, "Coach, the rules say you can't take two timeouts in a row."

This is not to absolve Gibbs from blame. Certainly he, or someone else on this immense coaching staff should have known that. But I'm really interested to hear how the league explains this one.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Matty, I'm with you all the way on this one. In every situation, if a player or coach tries to call consecutive timeouts, then it's up to the official, upon hearing the request, to deny the timeout, continue with the play, and explain that taking consecutive timeouts is illegal.

Clearly, the official who stopped the play the second time didn't know the rule either. When getting the signal from Gibbs to take the second timeout, he never should have waved his arms to cease play and stop the clock. All he had to say is, "Coach, the rules say you can't take two timeouts in a row."

This is not to absolve Gibbs from blame. Certainly he, or someone else on this immense coaching staff should have known that. But I'm really interested to hear how the league explains this one.

My thoughts exactly. I'm not trying to absolve Gibbs either, but clearly he may have been given bad info and that's certainly an issue I would want brought up with the league.

[70Chip]

What I don't understand is why the ref didn't just tell him when he called the timeout that he couldn't do it? That tells me that the ref on the sideline didn't know the rule. If a coach tries to call a timeout in that situation when he doesn't have one, the ref would just ignore him. He wouldn't come running in to stop the play. None of this excuses Gibbs, but it seems to me that at least one official was complicit in the mistake.

[irish]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

My thoughts exactly. I'm not trying to absolve Gibbs either, but clearly he may have been given bad info and that's certainly an issue I would want brought up with the league.

Gibbs said he asked and "felt the ref said yes" (whatever that means). I think he was not really sure what the ref said or else he would have said I asked and the ref said yes.

When Chris Webber called the TO when UM didnt have any left in the Natl Championship game the ref didnt keep the game going and then explain later that you didnt have any left so I just let the game go on. Gibbs made a mistake.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

My thoughts exactly. I'm not trying to absolve Gibbs either, but clearly he may have been given bad info and that's certainly an issue I would want brought up with the league.

I'm sure the league's stance is it's your responsibility to know the rules of the game. In basketball if you are out of timeouts and you call one anyway, the ref has to grant it, but it's a technical foul.. In baseball if you call timeout and it's not granted and the pitcher throws a strike, it's still a strike.. The officials are there to govern the game, not advise on whether actions are within the written/stated rules or not. I really don't get how any of the blame/responsibility can be put on this official.

JG-"Can I call another timeout?"
Ref-"Yes you can."

The Redskins had another timeout to call so the ref didn't do anything wrong IMO, it was a boneheaded mistake that ultimately cost us the game.

[over the mountain]

our D has not been able to stop the other team from scoring on the last drive for awhile now. we need them to come up with a defensive stands at vthe ends of games if we are going to win joe gibbs type football.

my brother thinks coach joe called the 2nd timeout on purpose to shoulder the blame and any criticism for the loss to protect the players from feeling like they let ST down. i said there is no way joe did that on a 51 yarder when there was still a chance at winning the game and providing a huge emnotional lift to this team.

whats more believable: joe goes out of his way to protect players from feeling like they let ST down or that he didnt know you cant call 2 timeouts in a row?

by the looks of the washington post it seems joe did a good job of attracting all the blame and criticism for the loss

[SmootSmack]

Wouldn't surprise me for one second if he did that to take the blame off the players. Though I doubt that's what he did. I think he just had a mental lapse and forgot that the penalty had just recently changed.