D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)

[GoSkins!]

Zorn seems to be stubbornly sticking to a base 5 guy protection scheme and demanding that his o-line learn to block. Gibbs would routinely keep 8 guys in to block and send 2 guys out on routes. I think the o-line got spoiled.

[T.O.Killa]

Originally Posted by GoSkins!

Zorn seems to be stubbornly sticking to a base 5 guy protection scheme and demanding that his o-line learn to block. Gibbs would routinely keep 8 guys in to block and send 2 guys out on routes. I think the o-line got spoiled.

Yeah, it is very similar to Spurrier. I was shocked that he let Giesinger out the on the left side, all alone. I was shouting at the tv, that Gibbs would never have done that. His excuse was he did not have time to make that decision. That was completely unexceptable. The whole game was very frustrating to me.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by T.O.Killa

Yeah, it is very similar to Spurrier. I was shocked that he let Giesinger out the on the left side, all alone. I was shouting at the tv, that Gibbs would never have done that. His excuse was he did not have time to make that decision. That was completely unexceptable. The whole game was very frustrating to me.

That one play definitely was unbelievable. How in the world do you send in the backup center to play LT and leave him on an island against a fierce pass rush? That just blew my mind.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

That one play definitely was unbelievable. How in the world do you send in the backup center to play LT and leave him on an island against a fierce pass rush? That just blew my mind.

This is the kind of stuff that is going to happen to a rookie HC who has never even been a coordinator before, who has not only taken on the role of HC, but also OC and QB coach. I think he's got too much on his plate.

[Beemnseven]

Matty, in the nearly ten years that we've been conversing on the internet, these are the gloomiest couple of posts I've ever read from you. They are well-founded though.

I agree with you. If things start falling apart in the locker room and they can't finish better than 2-1 during this last stretch, the Jim Zorn experiment could be done for.

[GMScud]

So much for Gibbs bringing stability back to the organization. That notion didn't last too long.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I don't see the run game as the issue. Getting killed week after week by the same blitzes tells me it's a pass pro issue, mainly due to the scheme. It shouldn't take a genius to figure out how to scheme for an overload blitz. Right now Zorn seems to be either stumped over trying to stop it or he's flat out ignoring that it's an issue. JC has taken some wicked shots over the past few weeks. I swear it's Spurrier/Ramsey all over again.

You're defintely right, it's a pass-pro issue....but the first INT, Samuels just got beat. As a coach how do you account for that, you have a Pro Bowl LT out there, you have to believe he'll win that battle. Are you going to hold a back or TE in with Samuels? You do that, and now what do you do to help Jansen, who you know is struggling. What about anything coming up the gut? One of the overload blitz sacks was a BAD line call by Kendall, he's pointing down and there's 3 guys from Samuels out, at the snap he goes down to help Rabach with no one anywhere near his A gap. How is that Zorn's fault? Let's not forget Zorn is the HC, but Buges should have fixed the pass-pro issues if they were a scheme issue. We've got an OL that's struggling terribly and no scheme in the world can fix that. Bad OL = Poor offensive production.

And since teams know we can't pass, say hello to 8 & 9 man fronts....goodbye run game.

[724Skinsfan]

Only time will tell (great song!) what's going to happen. I'm not happy with what's happening right now, but I can not fathom a coaching change next year. Zorn is stuck between developing his young players and winning football games. He's not going to throw in the towel to get his young guys in the game to gain experience with his system at the expense of benching the veterans that have stayed with the team through some serious times. He shouldn't be put under the same magnifying glass as the other rookie head coaches. Harbaugh and Smith get new QB's and RB's to play with. Zorn has to retrain his QB, keep a good but unfamiliar running attack and learn the speed of game-time decision making, all the while calling the plays on offense. He should get a pass regardless of our record this year. If things don't get progressively better as the 2009 season goes, then he should be let go.

Like a few others have said, I think a couple of "old guard" coaches and a few players will be dismissed after this year. We need a new WCO-minded offensive line coach.

[YellowBirdy]

I’m starting to think that maybe one of the reasons Gibbs used a more conservative Offense with max blocking schemes was because he had a more realistic assessment of the talent (or lack of it) on the O Line when it came to pass protection.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by YellowBirdy

I’m starting to think that maybe one of the reasons Gibbs used a more conservative Offense with max blocking schemes was because he had a more realistic assessment of the talent (or lack of it) on the O Line when it came to pass protection.

Excellent post.

[A10sROCK]

Zorn won't be fired. There are several reasons for this statement:


1. Vinny hired him and isn't going to give up on this experiment that easily.


2. Snyder knows that if he fires a HC after one season, NO ONE and I mean NO ONE of any consequence will come here. The coaches that turned Snyder down last pre-season did so because of the perception that the Redskins have a chaotic and amateurish owner / coaching situation. He will stay the course no matter what to build faith for future hiring.

3. People forget that Snyder was going to give Steve Spurrier another year even after the team began to melt down horribly in his second season. Spurrier quit.

4. gibbs may have left because he knew this team wasn't going to be much better this year. I'm sure Gibbs will tell Danny to keep Zorn.

The problems the team faces will force Zorn to toughen up and release players and coaches this off-season. I see no way that Zorn will be fired. People just look at the Shottenheimer issue and forget what's happened since then.

[A10sROCK]

Danny Snyder was going to give Spurrier another season [ss quit]. Spurrier had a .45 win/loss record and the team was melting down.


Danny Snyder was certainly going to give Joe Gibbs another season or more [he quit]. Gibbs II was at a .45 win/loss record.


So why would Snyder fire Zorn when we are still above .500 or at . 500 in his rookie season?

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by YellowBirdy

I’m starting to think that maybe one of the reasons Gibbs used a more conservative Offense with max blocking schemes was because he had a more realistic assessment of the talent (or lack of it) on the O Line when it came to pass protection.

If that was the case, then in 4 years as not only HC but also team president, why did we not bring in more O-line talent through the draft and free agency?? You may be right I don't know, but if you are, it's further evidence of the ineptitude of our FO.

[atomicnixon]

Originally Posted by YellowBirdy

I’m starting to think that maybe one of the reasons Gibbs used a more conservative Offense with max blocking schemes was because he had a more realistic assessment of the talent (or lack of it) on the O Line when it came to pass protection.

Great post, I never thought of it that way. Even in the 80's and early 90's when the run game was their "bread and butter" they had a really prolific passing attack. It was odd that Gibbs went to such conservatism, but I think you're right, he made a great assessment on our pass protection.

[Schneed10]

I've seen a few posts in this thread, from SS and skinsfan69 in particular, stating unequivocally (and I'm paraphrasing here) that you don't get rid of Zorn after one season under any circumstances.

I could not disagree with you more.

If Zorn guides this team to wins against the Bengals and Niners, finishing at 9-7, then he certainly deserves to keep his job. I want to make that very clear first and foremost.

But if we drop all 3 remaining games? Lose to the Bengals and the 49ers? Collapse down the stretch? Start to lose the locker room? Finish 7-9 after making the playoffs last year while keeping the same defense and the same running game? No thank you, that's ineffective leadership.

Leadership positions are not the kind where you need to learn on the job. You either have a clue how to lead men or you don't. Offensive schemes, sure, they take time. But not leadership. You don't lose the locker room if you're a good leader.

But should offensive schemes even take all that long when all you have to do is install a passing offense? I'm willing to give Zorn two years to produce a passing offense worth a darn, a la Matt Hasselbeck. But he better get this locker room back in a hurry, or all the offensive scheming in the world won't matter. If you can't lead men then you can't be a head coach in the NFL.

Zorn needs to stop saying things like "we just didn't execute" in the papers. If you keep selling your players out like that and deflect the criticisms of yourself, you're going to lose the players' respect.

I don't like kneejerk reactions applied to coaching changes, but there are times when waiting and being patient reaches the point of diminishing returns. Once we found out Spurrier couldn't lead men, we wanted him out and couldn't wait until it happened. Zorn is NOT at that point, but if he doesn't get the locker room back and beat the sorry ass Bengals and Niners, he might be.

Leader first, scheme second.