Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by 44ever

....

Nice post 44. Very thoughtful, insightful,...cutting edge type of stuff. Though I disagree with point #2, and I quote, ".",....I can understand how you would come to that conclusion.

[44ever]

Originally Posted by 53Fan

Nice post 44. Very thoughtful, insightful,...cutting edge type of stuff. Though I disagree with point #2, and I quote, ".",....I can understand how you would come to that conclusion.

Just trying to get my point across. Not sure what happened actually. But I'm glad you where able to make sence of some of it

[Skins4L]

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

[BigHairedAristocrat]

I dont get the disagreement that JC has a tendancy to lock onto receivers? It was mentioned in his profile prior to the 2005 NFL draft (although this is not uncommon in college QBs), its been mentioned in the media countless times as one of his tendancies, and its blatantly obvious when watching games on TV that he does it quite a bit. its not hard to see - its not like hes sneaky about it: you see his entire head pointed at the guy hes going to throw to during the receivers entire route.

This isnt a tangible statistic where someone can say "Jason campbell does it x% while some other QB does it y%... but its an obvious problem that has plagued him most of his career. Some can make excuses (perhaps even legitimate ones) that he stares down his receivers because: 1) he doesnt trust them to run their routes, and 2) he's had to learn so many new systems he's never comfortable with the one he's in - but theres no denying that the tendancy itself exists.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

I dont get the disagreement that JC has a tendancy to lock onto receivers? It was mentioned in his profile prior to the 2005 NFL draft (although this is not uncommon in college QBs), its been mentioned in the media countless times as one of his tendancies, and its blatantly obvious when watching games on TV that he does it quite a bit. its not hard to see - its not like hes sneaky about it: you see his entire head pointed at the guy hes going to throw to during the receivers entire route.

This isnt a tangible statistic where someone can say "Jason campbell does it x% while some other QB does it y%... but its an obvious problem that has plagued him most of his career. Some can make excuses (perhaps even legitimate ones) that he stares down his receivers because: 1) he doesnt trust them to run their routes, and 2) he's had to learn so many new systems he's never comfortable with the one he's in - but theres no denying that the tendancy itself exists.

Okay, but now we're just shifting the definition to fit the argument. It's gone from "he absoultely can not play the position because he just stares down receivers and everyone knows it" to "some people observe that he may doing this a bit too much, and he needs to show improvement in order to develop".

I'm not going to bother to disagree with the last point, because it's totally opinional (as opposed to totally false, like the first one). I just like to deal with concrete evidences and leave as little guesswork in the analysis as possible. Concretely, [2008 Jason Campbell] was better than [2007 Jason Campbell] which was better than [the average NFL QB in this era] whom is better than [2006 Jason Campbell]. If that makes any sense. That's concrete.

Concrete doesn't mean undeniable, because there's plenty of different ways to evaluate performance. I'm just taking one specific way that isn't stupid.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Okay, but now we're just shifting the definition to fit the argument. It's gone from "he absoultely can not play the position because he just stares down receivers and everyone knows it" to "some people observe that he may doing this a bit too much, and he needs to show improvement in order to develop".

I'm not going to bother to disagree with the last point, because it's totally opinional (as opposed to totally false, like the first one). I just like to deal with concrete evidences and leave as little guesswork in the analysis as possible. Concretely, [2008 Jason Campbell] was better than [2007 Jason Campbell] which was better than [the average NFL QB in this era] whom is better than [2006 Jason Campbell]. If that makes any sense. That's concrete.

Concrete doesn't mean undeniable, because there's plenty of different ways to evaluate performance. I'm just taking one specific way that isn't stupid.

I never said he could not play the position. Alot of mediocre QBs stare down receivers and they still have starting jobs. Also, I dont see how recognizing a fact (Campbell has a tendancy to stare down receivers) can be a matter of opinion - its a fact. he does it a lot. He's always done it alot. In every system he's ever been in. The fact cant be disputed. The disagreement arises because the fact is not easily quantifiable. That doesnt mean its not a valid point in arguing the Pros and Cons to keeping him as the starting QB in 2009.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

I never said he could not play the position. Alot of mediocre QBs stare down receivers and they still have starting jobs. Also, I dont see how recognizing a fact (Campbell has a tendancy to stare down receivers) can be a matter of opinion - its a fact. he does it a lot. He's always done it alot. In every system he's ever been in. The fact cant be disputed. The disagreement arises because the fact is not easily quantifiable. That doesnt mean its not a valid point in arguing the Pros and Cons to keeping him as the starting QB in 2009.

Well, understood, but I've been openly challenging how much it actually happens for about a week now because it doesn't seem to make logical sense that this big, great problem that is going to prevent him from developing, you know, hasn't actually hindered his development.

That, and I've just never, ever have noticed anything of the sort. Not that I think I'm above error here, I'm sure I've overlooked quite a bunch of things from a bunch of players this season...but this isn't an analysis of HB Blades' lateral movement ability. This is the quarterback of the Washington Redskins. I feel like if your assessment was anywhere near correct, I wouldn't be so dumbfounded right now at how you came up with it.

I'm not asking you to prove it to me mathematically, I'm just wondering if it's as obvious as you claim it to be, why does it NOT show up on the television broadcast footage (or the rare coaches tape bit on NFL N), and if it's as significant for his future development as you think it will be, why haven't we seen it in his progress to date?

I think these are legitimate questions you at least should consider.

[53Fan]

I think JC locked on to the primary receiver at the beginning of the year and then started checking down way to fast later on. It could be from not having any time due to the o-line play or it could be from it being drilled into his head to checkdown. Either way, I would think it is something he can adjust. If not, then there is a problem. We'll see.

[SmootSmack]

It's kind of funny how we've gone 12 pages here talking about Jason Campbell and his future, or lack thereof possibly, with the Redskins when a)we have another multiple page thread going on that right now, and b)the original intent of this thread was not to discuss Leftwich as a replacement for Campbell but as one for Todd Collins.

So, in an attempt to bring us back home so to speak, I am going to modify the thread title and ask the following question:

Are we comfortable with our current QB situation if Campbell goes down?

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

It's kind of funny how we've gone 12 pages here talking about Jason Campbell and his future, or lack thereof possibly, with the Redskins when a)we have another multiple page thread going on that right now, and b)the original intent of this thread was not to discuss Leftwich as a replacement for Campbell but as one for Todd Collins.

So, in an attempt to bring us back home so to speak, I am going to modify the thread title and ask the following question:

Are we comfortable with our current QB situation if Campbell goes down?

NO. Colt is nowhere close to ready to lead a football team. Todd Collins is an old statue who, save for a 4 game stretch, has done next to nothing his entire career except hold a clipboard. During his 4 game tear (his lone career highlight), he was running an offense he studied for like 7 years in KC. He looked pretty bad, and pretty lost in Zorn's offense during training camp/preseason last year. Also, should Collins need to play, I fear for his life given the current state of our offensive line.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by GMScud

NO. Colt is nowhere close to ready to lead a football team. Todd Collins is an old statue who, save for a 4 game stretch, has done next to nothing his entire career except hold a clipboard. Also, should Collins need to play, I fear for his life given the current state of our offensive line.

So what do we do? What can we do?

[44ever]

I'm comfortable handing it over to Colt. I don't think he needs 5 years watching Campbell play before he's ready. If guys like Flacco can do it, I see no reason why Colt couldn't handle it. This is all under the assumption JC goes down of coarse. I think he's ready.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

So what do we do? What can we do?

Well, we can't do much. The UFA QB's aren't too impressive (aside from Cassel and Warner), and even if they were I don't think we would or should go after any of them. There are a few guys out there who would upgrade the backup situation (Losman, K.Collins, JT O'Sullivan) but Todd Collins is under contract, and if we cut or traded Brennan, the Colt Cult would burn down Redskins Park.

If the question is "are we comfortable with our current QB situation if Campbell goes down," then my answer is NO based on 2008. Now, come training camp, Brennan, Collins, and JC will all be further along in this offense than they were a year ago. So my hope is all three look really sharp, and we'll be fine.

Weak answer, I know, but it's all I've got.

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

So what do we do? What can we do?

Short term... make Colt the backup and hope for the best.

Long Term...pick up whichever QB NE doesn't want to keep at the end of next season. The only problem is that it may require sending high draft picks via trade. I am not too fond of that idea. Hopefully the Pat's do not get a deal done with Cassel (realistic) OR they release Brady (I doubt that).

The alternative waste a high draft pick on a Rookie QB next year because as it stands now there is no one else that is both good and will be available.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Interesting choice for a modified title. In response, i would say, i'm very uncomfortable with our QB situation with Campbell under center. if he goes down, i dont think we could realy ask for a better situation at backup. We arent going to find a #1 caliber QB to sit behind Campbell. Byron Leftwich would never come to washington to be a backup and i cant think of any other starting-caliber QBs who would either. Todd Collins is about as good a stop-gap as we could ask for. If Campbell goes down and is out for an extended period of time, and our offensive line is upgraded in 2009, id much rather see Brennan go in, though. If our line is bad, no way would i give him a trial by fire.