'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by wilsowilso

Has anyone today discussed two Santana Moss plays that were very very confusing.

The first play was the failed Randel El pass play. The replays clearly show Moss running 3/4 speed and very tentative in his route. The second play in question was the one deep throw of the day. Once again the replay reveals Moss running 3/4 speed and this time he just looks like he has no real interest in the evolution of the play itself.

What gives?

i didnt record the game so i cant go back and see. unless moss has a reporter ask him the question i dont think we will have an answer.

but last year, moss "gave up" on a deep route, JC threw a good ball but since moss thought the play was dead or wasnt going to him he stopped running the route at 100%. im pretty sure that led to an int. cant find a link to it now.

in the seattle playoff game moss had this to say regarding him "giving up" on a deep route on a play he thought was dead that led to an int:

"Collins … finally had a pass land in the other team’s hands. When receiver Moss gave up on a route deep down the right sideline, Marcus Trufant easily hauled in the ball and returned it 78 yards for a score.
“I thought it was a dead play,� Moss said. “Then, all of a sudden I look up and the guy is catching it like a punt. You hate to be in a situation where the ball is coming and you don’t even know it.�

im guessin since we dont take many shots down the field and JC usually doesnt have all day to sit in the pocket, moss just assumes the ball is never gonna be thrown his way on deep routes . . .or JC just doesnt actually throw the long ball when its called . . . this is becoming a pattern. i will not regurgitate my personal opinion on how moss views this organization and its play calling but hes been here for awhile, has seen new HC and off coord come and go and one thing stays the same . . . moss doesnt trust our coachign staff or the people that hire the coaching staff.

go skins!!

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by wilsowilso

Has anyone today discussed two Santana Moss plays that were very very confusing.

The first play was the failed Randel El pass play. The replays clearly show Moss running 3/4 speed and very tentative in his route. The second play in question was the one deep throw of the day. Once again the replay reveals Moss running 3/4 speed and this time he just looks like he has no real interest in the evolution of the play itself.

What gives?

On that trick play he has to sell run to try to get his man to bite which MAY explain his apparent loafing. The truth is he's had maybe one good game and one decent game against New York since he's been here and the rest have been clunkers. I expect him to bounce back next week.

[SmootSmack]

I root for Jim Zorn to do well because he is the coach of the Redskins. He wouldn't have been my choice considering the final candidates but that's in the past. It's Zorn now and I will hope that he improves as a head coach. But that includes how he handles himself off the field.

And I'm going to have bring him the pain for his comments in today's press conference. Whether you believe it's the players' fault or not, you cannot expect to earn their trust if you continuously lay the blame on them and fail to recognize your own faults. As the late, great Bill Walsh would say "When you point your finger at someone, remember that three fingers are pointing back at you."

Zorn's answers here were a bit disappointing. Especially on the ARE play. I agree with him that ARE should have thrown it away, but you don't say that.

Washington Redskins Mobile

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I root for Jim Zorn to do well because he is the coach of the Redskins. He wouldn't have been my choice considering the final candidates but that's in the past. It's Zorn now and I will hope that he improves as a head coach. But that includes how he handles himself off the field.

And I'm going to have bring him the pain for his comments in today's press conference. Whether you believe it's the players' fault or not, you cannot expect to earn their trust if you continuously lay the blame on them and fail to recognize your own faults. As the late, great Bill Walsh would say "When you point your finger at someone, remember that three fingers are pointing back at you."

Zorn's answers here were a bit disappointing. Especially on the ARE play. I agree with him that ARE should have thrown it away, but you don't say that.

Washington Redskins Mobile

Agreed. Maybe he's so hyper-aware of how hot his seat is, that he is scared to publicly take blame. I'd love to hear him say he called a flat out lousy game, because he did and everyone knows it.

[JWsleep]

Zorn stood by the call--so I'm not sure what else there is to say. I didn't think it was so bad, given down and distance--if it hits, it's bold. But ARE CANNOT take a sack there. Toss it the fuck out of bound, 2nd 10, still FG range, etc. Instead it's 2nd and 20.

I think Zorn calling out players (if you want to call it that) is fine--too little of that, IMO.

Zorn's pretty candid about stuff, and I've never been so into that it's all my fault coach speak. Whatever. Just call good plays and execute, and win some games. Then we won't have this stupid problem about how to best take the blame for our fuck ups.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by JWsleep

Zorn stood by the call--so I'm not sure what else there is to say. I didn't think it was so bad, given down and distance--if it hits, it's bold. But ARE CANNOT take a sack there. Toss it the fuck out of bound, 2nd 10, still FG range, etc. Instead it's 2nd and 20.

I think Zorn calling out players (if you want to call it that) is fine--too little of that, IMO.

Zorn's pretty candid about stuff, and I've never been so into that it's all my fault coach speak. Whatever. Just call good plays and execute, and win some games. Then we won't have this stupid problem about how to best take the blame for our fuck ups.

Yeah but players want to hear from coaches sometime "Hey it was my fault," or "I'm just as much to blame" Something along those lines. Just to show the blame is universal (for lack of a better term)

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I definitely think ARE handled the play poorly. But I also think Zorn could have handled the response a bit better.

[skins89moss]

Originally Posted by JWsleep

Zorn stood by the call--so I'm not sure what else there is to say. I didn't think it was so bad, given down and distance--if it hits, it's bold. But ARE CANNOT take a sack there. Toss it the fuck out of bound, 2nd 10, still FG range, etc. Instead it's 2nd and 20.

I think Zorn calling out players (if you want to call it that) is fine--too little of that, IMO.

Zorn's pretty candid about stuff, and I've never been so into that it's all my fault coach speak. Whatever. Just call good plays and execute, and win some games. Then we won't have this stupid problem about how to best take the blame for our fuck ups.

I guess even veterans such as ARE and Hines Ward make mistakes. So this BS
that a Rookie will make mistakes should apply to every football player. Its just part of the game . Let Fred Davis get on the field and get the ball in his hands.

[over the mountain]

heres more moss and JC:

from giants skins opener last year

Wide receiver Santana Moss was in single coverage with young cornerback Aaron Ross, and beat him cleanly on a go route down the right sideline. But Campbell waited too long to deliver the throw after avoiding a pass rush, and the pass fell incomplete. Moss gave up on the route, believing Campbell had been sacked (an assumption that also hurt the Redskins in their playoff loss to Seattle in January). ....The failure of that play was not on Campbell alone, said Moss, who acknowledged he eased up prematurely. "It's on all of us," Moss said. "The play usually develops a little quicker than that, and that was one of my reasons for slowing down, because I'm running forever. I kind of looked back and the ball wasn't there, so I thought something happened. But he got pressured. You could see, clear as day, he got pressured.

"He had to do a little something different. When that happens, a play like that will [break down] like that. We couldn't get out of the play what we thought we could get out of it once he got pressured. He still got a chance to throw it down the field, but by that time I had slowed down and it gave the other guy [Ross] a chance to catch up. It happens like that sometimes. I'm pretty sure that if he didn't get the pressure, you probably wouldn't be talking about the play like that."

i could go on . . .

[warriorzpath]

One thing that everyone forgets is - just because there aren't many deep balls thrown doesn't mean that the passing plays with deep routes are not called. It could be one reason or another why a pass is not attempted deep, but I would think the deep passing plays are being called.

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

One thing that everyone forgets is - just because there aren't many deep balls thrown doesn't mean that the passing plays with deep routes are not called. It could be one reason or another why a pass is not attempted deep, but I would think the deep passing plays are being called.

Campbell said he was trying to go downfield on the sack-fumble, but ended up holding it too long because there was nothing there and he was waiting on his check down.

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

One thing that everyone forgets is - just because there aren't many deep balls thrown doesn't mean that the passing plays with deep routes are not called. It could be one reason or another why a pass is not attempted deep, but I would think the deep passing plays are being called.

Last year I noticed on many pass completions there seemed to be a deeper option that was just as open or even more open than the receiver that was thrown to. I emphasize "seemed" because I am no expert. Just an observation.

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by 44Deezel

Last year I noticed on many pass completions there seemed to be a deeper option that was just as open or even more open than the receiver that was thrown to. I emphasize "seemed" because I am no expert. Just an observation.

G' Damnit Deezel! The season's already started! NOW you tell us!!!

[Beemnseven]

Here's the other thing about the trick play with Randle El -- by now, the secret is out among opposing teams that if ARE gets a reverse or he gets the ball in the backfield, assume it's a pass. He's been in on those plays since his days in Pittsburgh.

[hooskins]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Here's the other thing about the trick play with Randle El -- by now, the secret is out among opposing teams that if ARE gets a reverse or he gets the ball in the backfield, assume it's a pass. He's been in on those plays since his days in Pittsburgh.

We need to stop pretending it is 04. ARE sucks at PR, KR and throws. He waits too long, tries to make too much happen, etc. I am done with ARE anywhere beside receiving. And that comes with caveats too.

Just throw quick slot passes to him and he can be a 1000yd receiver this year.

[insideman]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Here's the other thing about the trick play with Randle El -- by now, the secret is out among opposing teams that if ARE gets a reverse or he gets the ball in the backfield, assume it's a pass. He's been in on those plays since his days in Pittsburgh.

Does Zorn watch these tapes of other teams and then try and plan the play calling on what he sees or does he just off the top of his head come up with these stupid ideas. Poor planning on Zorns in part I think is what is leading us to these type of poor loses. Also I get the feeling he has confidence in his team by the way he calls these plays. Let them go out there and just play good football. But time and time again he says he has the up most confidence is it all. DON'T TRULY BELIEVE THIS IS TRUE.