It's a joy watching other teams play

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by 53Fan

That was a great game to watch. Makes you realize even more how bad we look. Funny what you said about tearing down the offensive coaching staff Tripp, I was talking about the same thing today. I really think Zorn could be a good HC given some time, but I really don't see much in his assistants. Looks mostly like college guys who haven't done much in the NFL, or NFL coaches who have been promoted to positions they've never held.

Get me my C4, it's time to blow up this team. LOL. One can only dream, no?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Get me my C4, it's time to blow up this team. LOL. One can only dream, no?

I do not believe in rebuilding. I believe in building. Teams should always be building, whether they are winning 3 games or 13.

There is never, ever a good reason to trade a 2nd round draft pick for a 34 year old superstar. Not ever.

Trading draft picks is fine, but with all the teams desperate to unload 4th and 5th year players near the end of their contracts for picks, you have to win every trade ever time.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by 53Fan

That was a great game to watch. Makes you realize even more how bad we look. Funny what you said about tearing down the offensive coaching staff Tripp, I was talking about the same thing today. I really think Zorn could be a good HC given some time, but I really don't see much in his assistants. Looks mostly like college guys who haven't done much in the NFL, or NFL coaches who have been promoted to positions they've never held. Our execution looks like shit and how much are these guys responsible for it? Of course the o-line, we know whose fault that is.

I don't think Zorn will ever be a good head coach. Jim Zorn is 54 years old, if I'm correct. He's no spring chicken even though most people think he is. I would think if he had it, it would have surfaced at some point before he arrived in D.C.

Some guys are just wired to be lifetime coordinators and position coaches, and Jim Zorn is one of those guys. Actually, I don't think Zorn would be a very good offensive coordinator either. You would see the same exact vanilla schemes and predictable play calling. I really think it was a colossal error to make him head coach so suddenly.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I don't think Zorn will ever be a good head coach. Jim Zorn is 54 years old, if I'm correct; he's no spring chicken even though most people think he is. I would think if he had it, it would have surfaced at some point before he arrived in D.C.

Some guys are just wired to be lifetime coordinators and position coaches, and Jim Zorn is one of those guys. Actually, I don't think Zorn would be a very good offensive coordinator either. You would see the same exact vanilla schemes and predictable play calling. I really think it was a colossal error to make him head coach so suddenly.

Well, I think his age has contributed to him being unable to handle three hats. If he was 42 or 43, maybe he could handle it. It would take a lot more work than he's currently putting in, but Gruden and Shanahan both pulled it off at similar ages. It's been done before.

I think one of the biggest flaws was that Zorn, in his early 50's, was treated like a young up-and-coming coaching superstar, and well, I think his age had a lot to do with his inability to meet all challenges.

To me, that doesn't make him not a good coach. I think he his a good coach. It makes him a horrible fit for the do it all superstar the Redskins were looking for. Even Gibbs 2.0 had fleeting success while wearing two hats, and Gibbs is one of the biggest proponents of surrounding yourself with the best people. Zorn's biggest flaw is that he didn't buy into Gibbs' most important principle.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

To me, that doesn't make him not a good coach. I think he his a good coach. It makes him a horrible fit for the do it all superstar the Redskins were looking for. Even Gibbs 2.0 had fleeting success while wearing two hats, and Gibbs is one of the biggest proponents of surrounding yourself with the best people. Zorn's biggest flaw is that he didn't buy into Gibbs' most important principle.

Seemed like to me Zorn put himself in that position a bit. I mean sure they brought him to handle Campbell too.. but playcalling, etc he could've easily let Sherman Smith handle.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by tryfuhl

Seemed like to me Zorn put himself in that position a bit. I mean sure they brought him to handle Campbell too.. but playcalling, etc he could've easily let Sherman Smith handle.

Not trying to absolve Zorn from putting himself in a situation he couldn't handle, but I think he was more than willing to take whatever he could get.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Well, I think his age has contributed to him being unable to handle three hats. If he was 42 or 43, maybe he could handle it. It would take a lot more work than he's currently putting in, but Gruden and Shanahan both pulled it off at similar ages. It's been done before.

I think one of the biggest flaws was that Zorn, in his early 50's, was treated like a young up-and-coming coaching superstar, and well, I think his age had a lot to do with his inability to meet all challenges.

To me, that doesn't make him not a good coach. I think he his a good coach. It makes him a horrible fit for the do it all superstar the Redskins were looking for. Even Gibbs 2.0 had fleeting success while wearing two hats, and Gibbs is one of the biggest proponents of surrounding yourself with the best people. Zorn's biggest flaw is that he didn't buy into Gibbs' most important principle.

I'm not sure what Zorn's biggest flaws are to be honest, but his strengths, whatever they are, don't exactly jump out at me either. I measure good coaching by one thing: winning. That's it. Good coaches win games. And he's yet to do that and it looks increasingly like he won't, at least not as the head coach of the Skins.

But the only reason I pointed out Zorn's age is because of the perception that Zorn was this guy in his 40s and that, perhaps, the fans were hoping that he would be the next Jon Gruden, Josh McDaniels, or Eric Mangini. Even though he didn't have the long coaching resume or Super Bowl ring, we were hoping that Jim Zorn would compensate for what he lacked on paper in other ways. My statement about his age wasn't an indictment on his skill or football acumen one way or another.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I'm not sure what Zorn's biggest flaws are to be honest, but his strengths, whatever they are, don't exactly jump out at me either. I measure good coaching by one thing: winning. That's it. Good coaches win games. And he's yet to do that and it looks increasingly like he won't, at least not as the head coach of the Skins.

But the only reason I pointed out Zorn's age is because of the perception that Zorn was this guy in his 40s and that, perhaps, the fans were hoping that he would be the next Jon Gruden, Josh McDaniels, or Eric Mangini. Even though he didn't have the long coaching resume or Super Bowl ring, we were hoping that Jim Zorn would compensate for what he lacked on paper in other ways. My statement about his age wasn't an indictment on his skill or football acumen one way or another.

Yeah, but bad coaches can win a lot of games too. There's no rule that says if your coach sucks, you have to lose. Or that if your coach understands the game inside and out, you have to win. Case in point: Manny Acta.

And I think that the big point that we're both in agreement on is that Zorn simply isn't who the Redskins thought he was. Zorn is just Jim Zorn. He's exactly the same guy Snyder was so impressed with. And he's just not cut out for the job that the Redskins were trying to fill.

To Snyder's credit, I don't think he he's trying to duck responsibility for this one. But finding Jim Zorn appears to have been one thing, putting Zorn in a situation where he could succeed is an entirely different one.

[GTripp0012]

One of the simplest things that Zorn could do next week is to put the headset that's directed attached to Jason Campbell's ear on Chris Meidt. Keep the playcalling duties, but focus on being ahead of the game in playcalling, and not about micromanaging Jason Campbell's footwork.

Simple, but it could pay immediate offensive dividends.

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

One of the simplest things that Zorn could do next week is to put the headset that's directed attached to Jason Campbell's ear on Chris Meidt. Keep the playcalling duties, but focus on being ahead of the game in playcalling, and not about micromanaging Jason Campbell's footwork.

Simple, but it could pay immediate offensive dividends.

I agree. When you see him on the sideline he's continously talking to JC. Telling him to do this and that, "tell the guys this is going to be a TD, take control..you're the leader etc." It's too much when he should be listening to what they're seeing upstairs and planning his next play to take advantage of what the D is doing.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

One of the simplest things that Zorn could do next week is to put the headset that's directed attached to Jason Campbell's ear on Chris Meidt. Keep the playcalling duties, but focus on being ahead of the game in playcalling, and not about micromanaging Jason Campbell's footwork.

Simple, but it could pay immediate offensive dividends.

Yeah I'm wondering if that's why Campbell isn't able to make the reads he needs to, throws it only to wide open guys downfield mostly, etc

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by tryfuhl

Yeah I'm wondering if that's why Campbell isn't able to make the reads he needs to, throws it only to wide open guys downfield mostly, etc

Look, Campbell isn't able to make the reads because he's not making the reads. It's as simple as that. Sure his handlers may be impacting his production some and, yes, this is his second year in the WCO. But tonight I watched, essentially, two rookie quarterbacks make a few bone headed plays, but they also made a lot of throws in some tight spaces and kept their teams in the game down the wire. That's not all coaching, that's guys playing football. In Sanchez' case, with a guy who just arrived 72 hours ago!

Jason Campbell is a football player and, at some point, his football instincts have to kick in regardless of who's coaching him and what plays are being called.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Look, Campbell isn't able to make the reads because he's not making the reads. It's as simple as that. Sure his handlers may be impacting his production some and, yes, this is his second year in the WCO. But tonight I watched, essentially, two rookie quarterbacks make a few bone headed plays, but they also made a lot of throws in some tight spaces and kept their teams in the game down the wire. That's not all coaching, that's guys playing football. In Sanchez' case, with a guy who just arrived 72 hours ago!

Jason Campbell is a football player and, at some point, his football instincts have to kick in regardless of who's coaching him and what plays are being called.

And while Campbell's numbers tell us nothing about the oppertunities Campbell's leaving on the table, they tell us he's hitting the open man about one standard deviation more than the average quarterback.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Look, Campbell isn't able to make the reads because he's not making the reads. It's as simple as that. Sure his handlers may be impacting his production some and, yes, this is his second year in the WCO. But tonight I watched, essentially, two rookie quarterbacks make a few bone headed plays, but they also made a lot of throws in some tight spaces and kept their teams in the game down the wire. That's not all coaching, that's guys playing football. In Sanchez' case, with a guy who just arrived 72 hours ago!

Jason Campbell is a football player and, at some point, his football instincts have to kick in regardless of who's coaching him and what plays are being called.

I've made the same argument but you can make a guy overthink too.

[12thMan]

In essence though, we agree Gtripp.