Portis staying?

[dgack]

Originally Posted by MonkFan4Life

I love hoe we can say that Portis should go but there are so many who love the "Never Has Done Anything For Us" Jason Campbell. But then again, onve he gets another contract which means more money YOU ALL WILL turn on him. WATCH !!!!

Totally OT, but I find it interesting that someone with the moniker MonkFan4Life would choose to support a player like Portis who doesn't practice, gets special treatment, and throws teammates under the bus, then trash a guy like Campbell who for the most part has shut his mouth and did his job, while most of the front office and lots of media pundits took a dump on him. I'd think a MonkFan (because I'm one myself) would be a bigger fan of the hard-working quiet guy. But whatever...

Originally Posted by MonkFan4Life

Portis was 13 yards shy of 1,500 the year before last behind the same line that the underachiever couldn't produce behind.

Okay, let me get this straight -- Portis's rushing yardage -- which took him 342 attempts, by the way -- 3rd most in the league that year -- is somehow proof that Campbell should have put up better numbers that year?

So you're saying that, say, since Thomas Jones had 1300 yards rushing that year, Favre should have had a better year throwing the ball? Yet his 3472/22/22 isn't markedly better than Campbell's 3245/13/6 -- in fact it's worse, if you go by passer rating.

Let's see -- DeAngelo Williams rushed for 1500 in '08. How did Delhomme do passing behind that line? 3288/15/12 -- 84.7 passer rating, a smidge higher than Jason.

Gosh, it kind of looks like Jason wasn't the only QB who did "OK" behind an O-Line that featured a 1000 to 1500 yard back.

It's almost like Campbell's performance is *totally irrelevant* to the argument of whether Portis should be here next year!

Originally Posted by MonkFan4Life

The guy gets hurt ;ast season and everyone says to let him go, or that we should.

Oh, I don't know, if I was so sick that I missed 25% of my work days over the past 4 years, I'm pretty sure my employers might start looking for a replacement, don't you?

Originally Posted by MonkFan4Life

Shanny knows what he had in Clinton Portis because he NEVER had another back like Portis after he sent him here.

Well, you got that right. He never had another 1500 yard back. He just had to make due with three seasons of consecutive 1000 yard backs he pieced together with bailing wire and duct tape. Reuben Droughns? Tatum Bell? Mike Anderson? Are you kidding me?

Originally Posted by MonkFan4Life

Get off his back, he already has put the team there on the way to the playoffs twice.

That's true, he has put the team on his back for two playoff runs. His 2.77 ypc playoff rushing average is also one of the main reasons those playoff runs ended.

[MonkFan4Life]

My user name has nothing to do with this issue. The fact that it was your opening salvo really lets me know how much you had on me for a response. I'm a football fan chief, I can also take the Redskins shades off to judge a player for them and not what a newspaper or talk show host wants me to think. That's something else, but I'll get to the facts that you tried to prove me wrong with. I didn't say a thing about Williams and Jones but I'll meet you there also. Delhomme is one of the FEW QB's that I wouldn't drop Campbell for and Favre had a bad year BUUUUUUT he did throw 22 TD's as well. Campbells performance is relevant when the O-Line is one of the reasons given for his production or lack there of, he's another subject for me. On to the subject at hand.

Now, it took Portis 342 attempts to gain those yards, So the F what. He got them didn't he. Obviously there were a lot of men in the box, or maybe the same line that you would complain about Jason having to play behind gave him the same grief. I guess that doesn't count. I can't believe that you can really discount the fact that he put the team on his back for 2 playoff runs. Honestly, but you say because they lost that it was HIS fault ? WOW

I really wish you had looked up stats before you thought about choosing me as the guy to make a name on. Let's look at the great running backs that you speak of after Portis.

The year before Portis got to Denver (2001),Terrell Davis gave them 701 and Mike Anderson gave them 678.

'02 Portis - 1,508
Mike Anderson -386. I wonder why he wasn't starting ?
'03 Portis - 1,591
'04 Droughns - 1,240
'05 Mike Anderson -1,014
Tatum Bell - 921
'06 Tatum Bell 1,025
'07 Selvin Young -729

Do you notice something ? Like I said, He knows what he had in Portis, and that guy is not done. If people can say that Jason needs blocking to be successful, what can Portis do with the same thing ? The same thing that he has done without it,...produce.

This is a lot of typing so if you are on XBox Live we can continue this debate but believe me I'm not a kid, I'm not an easy win.

[dgack]

Originally Posted by MonkFan4Life

My user name has nothing to do with this issue.

It has about as much to do with it as Jason Campbell's passing performance, but like I said -- totally off topic. I just found it interesting since I consider myself a Monk fan as well, and Portis' attitudes in several areas rub me the wrong way.

Originally Posted by MonkFan4Life

I'm a football fan chief, I can also take the Redskins shades off to judge a player for them and not what a newspaper or talk show host wants me to think.

That's good; that tells me you'd be able to objectively put your appreciation for Portis' past performance on the field aside and consider the realities of what he may or may not do next year.

Originally Posted by MonkFan4Life

I didn't say a thing about Williams and Jones but I'll meet you there also. Delhomme is one of the FEW QB's that I wouldn't drop Campbell for and Favre had a bad year BUUUUUUT he did throw 22 TD's as well. Campbells performance is relevant when the O-Line is one of the reasons given for his production or lack there of, he's another subject for me. On to the subject at hand.

Okay, you proved me wrong by saying that Favre and Delhomme had bad years? Makes no sense. My point was you used another irrelevant measure to compare Portis and Campbell, which makes no sense at all. And the only reason you even brought Jason up was to trash him because "all you guys who love Jason will be sorry when Portis leaves" or whatever.

Originally Posted by MonkFan4Life

Now, it took Portis 342 attempts to gain those yards, So the F what. He got them didn't he. Obviously there were a lot of men in the box, or maybe the same line that you would complain about Jason having to play behind gave him the same grief. I guess that doesn't count.

So the F what? It's called yards per carry. If you gave Fred Smoot enough carries he could gain a lot of yards rushing, too. 1500 yards is 1500 yards, and you can't sneeze at that, but what does it mean when the team still failed to do anything AND Portis was so abused that he spent half the following season injured?

The *fact* (yes, I use them) remains that when Portis has had 1500 yard seasons or very close to them, the next year he has missed 8 games. TWICE. That ain't coincidence, dude, that's mechanical failure.

Originally Posted by MonkFan4Life

I can't believe that you can really discount the fact that he put the team on his back for 2 playoff runs. Honestly, but you say because they lost that it was HIS fault ? WOW

No, I didn't discount them and I didn't say the losses were solely on Clinton. But the fact remains that the dude requires so many touches to generate yardage that by the time the playoffs roll around he is spent, and that IS a major reason we failed to advance -- lack of a solid run game! You cannot dispute this! If you say he's such a huge reason for the team's success, how can he NOT bear blame when he breaks down during those playoff games?

Originally Posted by MonkFan4Life

I really wish you had looked up stats before you thought about choosing me as the guy to make a name on.

The hilarious part is that you reposted the same information I did, and seem to think I missed Portis' 1500 yard seasons, when I explicitly called it out in my response.

Originally Posted by MonkFan4Life

Do you notice something ? Like I said, He knows what he had in Portis, and that guy is not done.

Yes, I noticed that Shanahan got the best shutdown corner in the league and then replaced Portis' 1500 yards with 1000 yards from a bunch of nobodies. Did he miss those 500 yards? I'm sure, but I think he was happy with the team's relative improvement even if he didn't have the #1 ranked rushing offense.

[SolidSnake84]

Man this thread sucks....everybody is at everybody's throat....We don't need that here....the thing i like about the WP is that everybody is usually so relaxed.

Some of these debates are good though...

I like a point that I am seeing ground out here: Everyone here appreciates CP's past work for us...however only a few people still feel that his past work should give him an indefinate pass on the future

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by MonkFan4Life

My user name has nothing to do with this issue. The fact that it was your opening salvo really lets me know how much you had on me for a response. I'm a football fan chief, I can also take the Redskins shades off to judge a player for them and not what a newspaper or talk show host wants me to think. That's something else, but I'll get to the facts that you tried to prove me wrong with. I didn't say a thing about Williams and Jones but I'll meet you there also. Delhomme is one of the FEW QB's that I wouldn't drop Campbell for and Favre had a bad year BUUUUUUT he did throw 22 TD's as well. Campbells performance is relevant when the O-Line is one of the reasons given for his production or lack there of, he's another subject for me. On to the subject at hand.

Now, it took Portis 342 attempts to gain those yards, So the F what. He got them didn't he. Obviously there were a lot of men in the box, or maybe the same line that you would complain about Jason having to play behind gave him the same grief. I guess that doesn't count. I can't believe that you can really discount the fact that he put the team on his back for 2 playoff runs. Honestly, but you say because they lost that it was HIS fault ? WOW

I really wish you had looked up stats before you thought about choosing me as the guy to make a name on. Let's look at the great running backs that you speak of after Portis.

The year before Portis got to Denver (2001),Terrell Davis gave them 701 and Mike Anderson gave them 678.

'02 Portis - 1,508
Mike Anderson -386. I wonder why he wasn't starting ?
'03 Portis - 1,591
'04 Droughns - 1,240
'05 Mike Anderson -1,014
Tatum Bell - 921
'06 Tatum Bell 1,025
'07 Selvin Young -729

Do you notice something ? Like I said, He knows what he had in Portis, and that guy is not done. If people can say that Jason needs blocking to be successful, what can Portis do with the same thing ? The same thing that he has done without it,...produce.

This is a lot of typing so if you are on XBox Live we can continue this debate but believe me I'm not a kid, I'm not an easy win.

I can't honestly speak for how much effort dgack put into his post, but that sure seemed like an easy win for him.

[NYCskinfan82]

I like CP the player, i beleive we have the right people in charge now and if they say he stays or goes i trust their judgement. Sometimes this site reminds me of highschool with its clicks if you say something that they don't agree with they get mad & want to call you crazy, don't get me wrong i'm sure there are some crazy people on this site but i think the one thing we all have in common is we are all DIE HARD REDSKIN FANS. Freedom of speech (typing) should be allowed it is right to discuss a topic but we are to groan for name calling. HTTR

[GusFrerotte]

CP til this season was one of the guys that never quit on the field. Yeah he got a strand of prime dona syndrome, but can you blame him? This type of situation(meaning with the team as a whole) is what got Barry Sunders to say "screw it" and leave when he could have stuck it out an easily become the best back ever!!!! As long as the docs say he is OK, then we should keep him. We need to concentrate on acquiring linemen, a LB, and a QB in the draft.

[The Goat]

I think it's totally possible CP could rebound and have a few very good seasons left. Honestly I believe he gave up on Zorn and did not prepare for the '09 campaign like he typically prepares. He looked slow, out of shape and generally unwilling to give 110%, which is what he'd given every game up to Zorn's 2nd year.

Deciding whether to retain him, for Shanny and Bruce, is probably a tough one. I think someone wisely pointed out Clinton could help his chances of staying in DC by working his ass off starting yesterday to impress the new regime. I think you could also say w/ confidence it's in his financial interest to rededicate himself. No franchise will pay him close to what he's due this year in salary.

[SolidSnake84]

Son of Man has called me out....my feelings are hurt.

I'll admit it though, I dont like Portis. I'll go as far as to say I do hate him. And i hate him because of what he has done to this team, how he has alienated his fellow team mates, and everything else that he has done...He doesn't appear to be sorry in the least, and given the opportunity, he is going to do the same things if he gets the chance. I hate how he is holding the redskins over a barrel. He will never change his ways. And people dont seem to get that, but thats fine.

I guess i'm wrong for wanting a guy like that off the team. People need to realize that we aren't going anywhere with guys like him because he disrupts any kind of unity/cohesion that the team would have. We have this great new coach, and great new manager, but if guys like Portis stay its going to be the same old same old, and you know it

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

Son of Man has called me out....my feelings are hurt.

I'll admit it though, I dont like Portis. I'll go as far as to say I do hate him. And i hate him because of what he has done to this team, how he has alienated his fellow team mates, and everything else that he has done...He doesn't appear to be sorry in the least, and given the opportunity, he is going to do the same things if he gets the chance. I hate how he is holding the redskins over a barrel. He will never change his ways. And people dont seem to get that, but thats fine.

I guess i'm wrong for wanting a guy like that off the team. People need to realize that we aren't going anywhere with guys like him because he disrupts any kind of unity/cohesion that the team would have. We have this great new coach, and great new manager, but if guys like Portis stay its going to be the same old same old, and you know it

First, I don't care if he stays or if he goes. That said, IF he stays, I don't think it is the same old same old. Some coaches tolerate foolishness, and it causes issues, some coaches put rules and disciplines in place, and allow no foolishness, most of the time that backfires too, the great coaches balance hard discipline with individual idiosyncrasies and they more often than not are the great coaches. One of JG's best attributes was maintaining team spirit and esprit de corps while allowing for a guy like Riggins to go have a drink or two with a Supreme Court judge, or CP give press conferences in costume. Antics can relieve the pressures of NFL life, and the great coaches understand that and manage it.

I think Shanahan had enough of CP the first time, but maybe he can talk some sense into him this time. Time will tell.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

First, I don't care if he stays or if he goes. That said, IF he stays, I don't think it is the same old same old. Some coaches tolerate foolishness, and it causes issues, some coaches put rules and disciplines in place, and allow no foolishness, most of the time that backfires too, the great coaches balance hard discipline with individual idiosyncrasies and they more often than not are the great coaches. One of JG's best attributes was maintaining team spirit and esprit de corps while allowing for a guy like Riggins to go have a drink or two with a Supreme Court judge, or CP give press conferences in costume. Antics can relieve the pressures of NFL life, and the great coaches understand that and manage it.

I think Shanahan had enough of CP the first time, but maybe he can talk some sense into him this time. Time will tell.

Perhaps I'm wrong but growing up during this time and laughing at it I thought it was after a SB run and Riggins was invited to a White House dinner? Gibbs didn't have anything to do with "allowing" him to go to it. I also thought it was after Riggins last year playing.

I don't know maybe I'm wrong.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Perhaps I'm wrong but growing up during this time and laughing at it I thought it was after a SB run and Riggins was invited to a White House dinner? Gibbs didn't have anything to do with "allowing" him to go to it. I also thought it was after Riggins last year playing.

I don't know maybe I'm wrong.

I don't mean to say that he allowed it in that sense, but there was also no discipline imposed, which today would probably be demanded. My point was to say that Gibbs gave players room to be themselves and probably directed that energy toward team building, should I have used the camo dress up before the dallas game, or other antics of Riggo. I don't think being a character or diva in and of itself is bad, but if not managed and guided into positive outlets, than it will become destructive, and that is what has happened with Portis through the Zorn Experiment.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I don't mean to say that he allowed it in that sense, but there was also no discipline imposed, which today would probably be demanded. My point was to say that Gibbs gave players room to be themselves and probably directed that energy toward team building, should I have used the camo dress up before the dallas game, or other antics of Riggo. I don't think being a character or diva in and of itself is bad, but if not managed and guided into positive outlets, than it will become destructive, and that is what has happened with Portis through the Zorn Experiment.

I see what your saying. The only thing I don't like about Gibbs was he eliminated some really great talented players cause he believed in character. I think the character of the team would be able to keep the 1 or 2 diva's on the team in check. But Gibbs wouldn't even look at some players even though they were the best at their position. He simply would settle for the blue colar character guy. However he did get the job done.

[SolidSnake84]

You are correct....It was in 1985 and John was invited to the white house. Joe Gibbs had nothing to do with it.

But I don't think it would have mattered. The only thing that I dont like about the Riggins and Portis comparisons, is that some people here are making it out like Portis worked just as hard as Riggins. And that is simply not true. Riggins was a team player. He had his own issues (drunkness, other things), but he always worked to help the team. You never heard about him badmouthing everybody under the sun all the while playing on a broken back...

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

You are correct....It was in 1985 and John was invited to the white house. Joe Gibbs had nothing to do with it.

But I don't think it would have mattered. The only thing that I dont like about the Riggins and Portis comparisons, is that some people here are making it out like Portis worked just as hard as Riggins. And that is simply not true. Riggins was a team player. He had his own issues (drunkness, other things), but he always worked to help the team. You never heard about him badmouthing everybody under the sun all the while playing on a broken back...

I'm sure Gibbs had his hands full. Especially with him showing up drunk. But there is no comparison. The only real problem we had with Riggins was his not wanting to show up for camp that "one" year. Gibbs went out to see him and talked him back into playing. Other wise Riggins was a model player. I loved the guy but even when he was getting older and slowing down and not being as effective I wanted him out. I didn't care what he provided on the field in the past or what his legacy said about him. It was about was he worth keeping on the field or could we get younger at that position, faster and healthier?

Again I like Portis. I think he's funny, but he has several things going against him....
Age
Injury prone
Concussion (this ones the biggie. Some players couldn't return)