Gun Control Thread- Should we?

[SmootSmack]

There were a string of robberies in my sister in law's apartment complex, a few years back. Guy would basically mug a couple at gunpoint, usually when they had their hands full with groceries. He'd make them take him to their apartment, he'd rob the place and leave. Nobody harmed, other than emotionally. Happened a couple of times until the third or fourth mugging.

Dude who was being mugged along with his girlfriend had a gun, so he pulled it out. Suspect shot them both dead right away.

Now I know that's just one example, but it's an example of everyone having a gun not being the solution.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Now I know that's just one example, but it's an example of everyone having a gun not being the solution.

I agree totally. Having a gun isn't going to be the ultimate solution. Those who claim it is, well, lets just say they are a bit misguided. I still think the numbers and percentage will weigh more in favor of those having guns.


I will say this. A robber/criminal will more than likely think twice about robbing stores or individuals that are packing heat. I know I sure as hell would unless I was looking for a shootout. I would guess that most criminals are looking for easy scores.

[JoeRedskin]

From the Nugent thread. My take on criminal predators and guns.

Originally Posted by love them hogs

Predators always pray on the weakest and pay very close attention to whom they prey upon.If you need proof just observe every living creature on the planet.

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Human predators may or may not be animalistic in their pursuit. But I would agree with you that predators pay very close attention to there prey. It is for this reason that gun ownership likely does not prevent an attack.

For example, if the human predator is simply looking to waylay a weakling for a quick score, certainly they would chose someone who "appears" weak. In such a situation, only an unconcealed weapon will prevent an attack. Otherwise, the predator will likely pick based on the appearance and may be unlucky to draw someone who has a gun.

Even in the "prey upon those who appear weak" situation, however, a concealed weapon does not guarrantee safety. As long as we are doing the animal analogy here - How many predators announce their presence to the prey prior to the strike? Not many successful ones. (The cheetah stands up and shouts across to plain to the gazelle "Hey buddy - I'm on my way and your dead meat"). The "prey on the weak" type of human predators will use stealth and will likely have some type of weapon for intimidation purposes. Again, by the time the predator is upon you, you may or may not have time to draw your weapon and disable them. I would suggest that, generally, this is not a given and, depending on the situation, may result in the serious injury of those you are trying to protect. Okay, you killed the bad guy but he managed to kill/maim your wife/child during the exchange. A risk you're willing to take? Maybe. It all depends on how "good" a "predator" he is.

Quite frankly, the only way to ensure protection from this kind of "find a weakling" predator is to permit people to openly carry weapons. Not sure how I feel about that.

Also, I would suggest to you that not all human predator's seek the weak. Many are very human with very human desires and capabilities for thought. Thus, many human predators, the truly dangerous ones, seek a specific thing (money, to rape your wife or daughter, to exact revenge, to inflict pain upon you, etc.). These predators are more along the lines of hunters and they know that they need not attack the weak to succeed, attacking the strong at a weak moment will work just as well. You have a gun? Or you may have a gun? I don't care if you have a gun b/c I will attack you (again with surprise) at a point in time when you will be unable to use it. Hell, I will assume you are armed and plan my attack accordingly. (Your putting your wife's coat on her, I can see both your hands and will kill your wife if you move them out of my sight). In such a case, the fact that you may be armed has already been factored into my attack and is of no deterrent value.

In each of these scenarios, the only time a gun offers protection is when the predator is looking for a weakling, surprises someone who, instead, has a gun, AND the predator was dumb enough to let the prey access and use the gun. In this situation, if you do kill the predator, you are actually reducing the long term effectivenes of your gun by culling out the dumb predators and leaving more of the smart ones out there.

Bottom line, personal safety is about awareness of self and situation. While carrying a concealed weapon can often help, it is simply not a guarantee of safety.

[RedskinRat]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Dude who was being mugged along with his girlfriend had a gun, so he pulled it out. Suspect shot them both dead right away.

That's merely an example of a gun owner not knowing how to react in a situation, not a failure of the concealed carry.

Why would you think you could pull a weapon and put a round on the target if the aggressor already has his weapon on you?

Every week in the NRA magazine I get there are police reports listed of a gun owner defending themselves or helping others using their firearm. I'd compile them or link to them if I wasn't so lazy.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by RedskinRat

That's merely an example of a gun owner not knowing how to react in a situation, not a failure of the concealed carry.

Why would you think you could pull a weapon and put a round on the target if the aggressor already has his weapon on you?

Every week in the NRA magazine I get there are police reports listed of a gun owner defending themselves or helping others using their firearm. I'd compile them or link to them if I wasn't so lazy.

Wait, but aren't there people here saying that the solution to the massacre in Aurora would have been everyone started pulling their weapon?

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Wait, but aren't there people here saying that the solution to the massacre in Aurora would have been everyone started pulling their weapon?

Originally Posted by Alvin Walton

I sure didnt.
There is no solution to that.

You cant predict insanity.

Some have.

My point is only that: (1) The assumption that it necessarily would have lessened the damage is an assumption based on a lot of things breaking the right way for the good guys and (2) Generically, the right to carry concealed weaponry would not have deterred Holmes from carrying out this particular crime.

[SmootSmack]

Well I'm done with this thread.

[RedskinRat]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Well I'm done with this thread.

Probably just as well, you really weren't holding up your end of the argument.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Well I'm done with this thread.

I think mredskins said it best when he said this is a merry go round.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

I think mredskins said it best when he said this is a merry go round.

Same thing happened in the Nugent thread. People having the same arguments over and over.

Through a post or two about dog training and we have it nailed.

[NC_Skins]

My question to those that support gun control laws is do you actually think it's going to be successful?

If history has shown anything, it's shown that a "war on _____" hasn't been successful.

Terrorism? Nope.

Drugs? Nope.

Obesity? Nope.

Crime? Nope.


All the laws and regulations and restrictions of civil liberties hasn't phased any of the areas I've listed.

What do you actually propose?

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

My question to those that support gun control laws is do you actually think it's going to be successful?

If history has shown anything, it's shown that a "war on _____" hasn't been successful.

Terrorism? Nope.

Drugs? Nope.

Obesity? Nope.

Crime? Nope.


All the laws and regulations and restrictions of civil liberties hasn't phased any of the areas I've listed.

What do you actually propose?

I'd say our war on Terrorism has been very successful. Now thats after 9/11 when we really started fighting it here.

[NC_Skins]

Salesman shot in head "for effect" - NBC-2.com WBBH News for Fort Myers, Cape Coral & Naples, Florida

This was posted by HailGreen28 in the other thread and thought it was very appropriate for this thread.

These are the kind of guys that need to pass a mental health test before owning a gun. I hope he never steps foot out of jail, and quite frankly think he deserves the hanging gallows.

[saden1]

If the United State can embark on a project to reclaim all the gold in the country I suspect it can collect all the assault rifles in the country, or at least as much of it as possible and criminalize the possession of it.

[RedskinRat]

Knife attacker stopped by gun owner