Are you buying into the Shanaplan?

[ashvirtually]

Hey, guys.

I don't post here often. I come here mostly to read and get news about the team and the NFL, and follow the gameday threads, so none of you know me but I have read most of you for years. I've contributed when I can and simply love this place. I have been a diehard fan of the 'Skins since I was a kid and 40 is less than two years away.

The last twenty years have been painful, with flashes of what could have been here and there, the only true bright spot in all that time being when #21 was in our backfield hunting receivers and killing TOs.

I was glad when we got rid of Vinny and Snyder started pumping his brakes on personnel decisions, I was ambivalent but willing to try with the Shanahans because we were epitomizing insanity (i.e., doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results), and I was all behind the trade for Robert.

I thought we would go 4-12, MAYBE 5-11, this season, and I was fine with that knowing we had a guy who was going to be the future.

And wow. Look where we are now.

For me, I think we saw the beginning of a real turnaround here in 'Skinsnation not against the Gi'nts, but against the Ravens.

When a player affects the play on the field he's not on, you've got something very special. What happened on FedEx Field Sunday before last against that Super Bowl quality team was truly remarkable.

I firmly believe week before last was a turning point for our 'Skins. I think Robert is ... well, just incredible. RG3 brought them all together against the Ravens and that allowed Cap'n Kirk to beam the Browns up Sunday. I think Robert will lead the 'Skins to extraordinary heights.

And that's due in no small part to the coaching of the Shanahans.

So yeah, I'm in on the Shanaplan. In fact, I'm doubling down. No matter what happens the rest of this season (and I believe we are going to run the table at this point), the Two Decades of Suck are over. We have no where to go but up.

HAIL!

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by ashvirtually

Hey, guys.

I don't post here often. I come here mostly to read and get news about the team and the NFL, and follow the gameday threads, so none of you know me but I have read most of you for years. I've contributed when I can and simply love this place. I have been a diehard fan of the 'Skins since I was a kid and 40 is less than two years away.

The last twenty years have been painful, with flashes of what could have been here and there, the only true bright spot in all that time being when #21 was in our backfield hunting receivers and killing TOs.

I was glad when we got rid of Vinny and Snyder started pumping his brakes on personnel decisions, I was ambivalent but willing to try with the Shanahans because we were epitomizing insanity (i.e., doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results), and I was all behind the trade for Robert.

I thought we would go 4-12, MAYBE 5-11, this season, and I was fine with that knowing we had a guy who was going to be the future.

And wow. Look where we are now.

For me, I think we saw the beginning of a real turnaround here in 'Skinsnation not against the Gi'nts, but against the Ravens.

When a player affects the play on the field he's not on, you've got something very special. What happened on FedEx Field Sunday before last against that Super Bowl quality team was truly remarkable.

I firmly believe week before last was a turning point for our 'Skins. I think Robert is ... well, just incredible. RG3 brought them all together against the Ravens and that allowed Cap'n Kirk to beam the Browns up Sunday. I think Robert will lead the 'Skins to extraordinary heights.

And that's due in no small part to the coaching of the Shanahans.

So yeah, I'm in on the Shanaplan. In fact, I'm doubling down. No matter what happens the rest of this season (and I believe we are going to run the table at this point), the Two Decades of Suck are over. We have no where to go but up.

HAIL!

Welcome to the board. Nice post.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

If I told you guys that talks are in advanced stages to keep Mike and Kyle around through 2015 (which is also the length of RG3's rookie deal)...would that affect your answer

Doesn't mikes 5 year deal already take him through the 2014-2015 season? So were offering him a 1 year extension?

[JoeRedskin]

Also, it seems clear to me, that the locker room mentality has changed considerably in the last couple of years. Pre-Shanny, every report I have read describes favoritism running rampant - certain players having the owners ear or knowing they did not need to tow the line to start.

On the other hand, every report I have ever read, every player interview I have seen, and anything written by anyone with any insider knowledge has indicated that Shanny is all about fairness - 1st round, 5th round, UFA - you all have a shot and the one who shows the best plays. I have read interviews from players who lost their job or lost out in the competition saying "I had a fair shot and wasn't able to capitalize."

Team chemistry can be overrated when there isn't enough talent to compete. At the same time, to win on a sustained basis in this particular game requires both talent and a good working attitude. Over the last two years, we have increased our depth and talent levels, ("Awful team" Tripp? I respectfully disagree) and we have added a stud QB. Several UFA signings have provided solid players - Lichtenstieger, Monty, Chester, Wilson. Players being drafted appear to have both talent and the right attitude. Sometimes, building a roster with both the talent and attitude takes time to come together.

I just think that the Shanahan nay sayers are vastly underrating the Cerrato Stink factor. Seriously, how could anyone succeed with him in charge? Please - berating the coach in front of players, undercutting his authority at every turn, you couldn't win with the most talented team in the league under those situations. A couple of years ago, Doc Walker had Vinny on his radio show and made an off-the-cuff, but incredibly telling, remark while discussing the team under Shanny. Something along the lines of "You wouldn't understand it Vinny, they are just playing football, nothing flashy."

I think, contrary to Tripp's evaluation, that the team, even without Griffin, has the talent to succeed and was on its way to that last year. With him, it may become elite (I said "may"). Solving the QB issue was huge and creates the luxury afforded teams like NE and GB - player acquisition can be less need based. This frees up lots of resources to improve in a fundamental, depth-improving manner.

I think a big test will be when some of the younger players start playing through their contracts. Do we treat them fairly? Have we stopped ignoring unsung talent on the roster (R.Clark, A. Pierce as past examples) while we go hunting for the next big thing (A. Archuletta). If players play for us with the mentality that Shanny wants them to, will they be rewarded both on the field and in their wallet. Further, for those who do leave in search of greener pastures, will we be able to find their replacement on the roster?

If we can hold onto some good talent while replacing inevitable losses from within, THEN we will win consistently. To me, that will be the real test of Shanny's "five-year plan".

[12thMan]

I'm somewhere in the middle of the majority of those who have bought in and wait in see in mode. Obviously, everyone is very pleased with the current results and winning streak, but let's not get too carried away. Shanahan hasn't put together Tom Coughlin type seasons here. Let's finish the season on a high note and see what we're made of over the stretch of a full 16 game season next year.

If you consider most of the past Super Bowl winners: The Giants, Patriots, Packers, and Steelers. The common thread is a franchise quarterback. Sure they have great supporting casts, great coaches, but this is by and large a quarterback driven league. To the extent that Robert continues to develop his game and steers clear of major injuries, I fully expect the Redskins to be in the playoff discussion going forward.

The more appropriate question right now, in my mind, has the franchise turned the corner? And the answer to that is emphatically, yes. I don't believe not drinking the Kool Aid makes you a skeptic or a crank or less passionate about the future of the team, it is what it is. There's an ebb and flow to winning. Teams get hot. Things come together at the right time and you're prepared to seize that moment. The truly great teams manage to overcome injuries, adversity, and setbacks and win games when they matter.

Have I bought into Shanaplan? For the here and now, yep.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I'm somewhere in the middle of the majority of those who have bought in and wait in see in mode. Obviously, everyone is very pleased with the current results and winning streak, but let's not get too carried away. Shanahan hasn't put together Tom Coughlin type seasons here. Let's finish the season on a high note and see what we're made of over the stretch of a full 16 game season next year.

If you consider most of the past Super Bowl winners: The Giants, Patriots, Packers, and Steelers. The common thread is a franchise quarterback. Sure they have great supporting casts, great coaches, but this is by and large a quarterback driven league. To the extent that Robert continues to develop his game and steers clear of major injuries, I fully expect the Redskins to be in the playoff discussion going forward.

The more appropriate question right now, in my mind, has the franchise turned the corner? And the answer to that is emphatically, yes. I don't believe not drinking the Kool Aid makes you a skeptic or a crank or less passionate about the future of the team, it is what it is. There's an ebb and flow to winning. Teams get hot. Things come together at the right time and you're prepared to seize that moment. The truly great teams manage to overcome injuries, adversity, and setbacks and win games when they matter.

Have I bought into Shanaplan? For the here and now, yep.

Have we turned the corner? Not sure - I think we will. Again, I want to see how ShanAllen handles the coming need for talent replacement/retention. If we succeed, if the talent level is improving, players will be lost. How they are replaced is key.

Look at Houston, their D lost DeMarco Ryans & Mario Williams this past year and is still playing at a high level. Sure, their was a scheme switch. Regardless, most teams losing two pro-bowlers from the first & second level of their defense would be in serious trouble. In Houston, however, they maintained there performance. I don't recall Houston signing guys to huge UFA contracts to replace them. Instead, they retained and replaced from inside - w/ guys on the roster that nobody may have known before plus good drafting (J.J. Watt makes up for a lot of other talent defeciencies).

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Have we turned the corner? Not sure - I think we will. Again, I want to see how ShanAllen handles the coming need for talent replacement/retention. If we succeed, if the talent level is improving, players will be lost. How they are replaced is key.

Look at Houston, their D lost DeMarco Ryans & Mario Williams this past year and is still playing at a high level. Sure, their was a scheme switch. Regardless, most teams losing two pro-bowlers from the first & second level of their defense would be in serious trouble. In Houston, however, they maintained there performance. I don't recall Houston signing guys to huge UFA contracts to replace them. Instead, they retained and replaced from inside - w/ guys on the roster that nobody may have known before plus good drafting (J.J. Watt makes up for a lot of other talent defeciencies).

Couple of things: We, too, have had our share of losses on defense: Rak and Carriker. One could also argue our defense is much better with Meriweather in the line-up. So the talent rule applies to the Redskins as well. It's quite possible that Mario Williams was a bit overrated to begin with. What has he done in Buffalo this season? Haven't heard much from him.

In short, Robert was the missing piece. The QB raises the level of play of those around him and we've witnessed that this season. We won a total of 11? games the previous two seasons. I feel we're on the right track; Turned the corner.

Generally I think we agree more than not on this point.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Couple of things: We, too, have had our share of losses on defense: Rak and Carriker. One could also argue our defense is much better with Meriweather in the line-up. So the talent rule applies to the Redskins as well. It's quite possible that Mario Williams was a bit overrated to begin with. What has he done in Buffalo this season? Haven't heard much from him.

In short, Robert was the missing piece. The QB raises the level of play of those around him and we've witnessed that this season. We won a total of 11? games the previous two seasons. I feel we're on the right track; Turned the corner.

My point about Houston was just an example of how good teams replace lost talent. Think of Gibbs I, the current Patriots or the 2000-2009 Eagles. Good teams can lose talent b/c it can be adquately replaced (or appropriately retained).

I fully agree that Robert was the missing piece although I would suggest it is more accurate to say "a quality QB was the missing piece" - the fact that we were able to insert an amazing talent like RGIII into that piece is just absolute gravy.

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Generally I think we agree more than not on this point.

I agree that we generally agree.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

My point about Houston was just an example of how good teams replace lost talent. Think of Gibbs I, the current Patriots or the 2000-2009 Eagles. Good teams can lose talent b/c it can be adquately replaced (or appropriately retained).

I fully agree that Robert was the missing piece although I would suggest it is more accurate to say "a quality QB was the missing piece" - the fact that we were able to insert an amazing talent like RGIII into that piece is just absolute gravy.

I definitely think that's why the Redskins were so good in the 80's, they had good backups who could come in and make plays, good quarterbacks who could win ya some games, and certainly a good eye for talent. But, I think drafting a guy like Kirk Cousins just showed everybody that if you do plan on being a winner, you're going to need a good backup QB.

[skinsnut]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

has the franchise turned the corner? And the answer to that is emphatically, yes.

I just read 6 pages of comments....I believe this is the biggest point.
You don't win 5 in a row with your back against the wall unless your team believes in the coach and themselves....this happened back under Gibbs when Sean Taylor died to reach the playoffs with a very average team.

The Redskins have turned the corner and are unlikely to become a laughing stock under current management....and that is a huge sigh of relief....

On another note, to me the Skins already won the Superbowl on Thanksgiving against the Cowboys....everything else is gravy....keep the guys healthy for a more serious run once we get a secondary and a pass rush....and teach RG3 to learn to throw a ball away in the pocket for heaven's sake during the offseason!

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by skinsnut

I just read 6 pages of comments....I believe this is the biggest point.
You don't win 5 in a row with your back against the wall unless your team believes in the coach and themselves....this happened back under Gibbs when Sean Taylor died to reach the playoffs with a very average team.

The Redskins have turned the corner and are unlikely to become a laughing stock under current management....and that is a huge sigh of relief....

On another note, to me the Skins already won the Superbowl on Thanksgiving against the Cowboys....everything else is gravy....keep the guys healthy for a more serious run once we get a secondary and a pass rush....and teach RG3 to learn to throw a ball away in the pocket for heaven's sake during the offseason!

Sound....wisdom

[12thMan]

I'd be careful drawing comparisons from the 80s, but the broader point is still legit.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I'd be careful drawing comparisons from the 80s, but the broader point is still legit.

Not sure why I'd have to be careful about drawing comparisons between decades, the simple fact remains true whether if it's the 50's or present day - depth is what helps to make a team good and to keep the team consistently good. That's often what separates good teams from bad teams.

[SmootSmack]

Yeah but depth is easier to create pre Plan B free-agency and salary caps

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Yeah but depth is easier to create pre Plan B free-agency and salary caps

Yes. Pre-1993 you could use your bench as a minor league development arrangement. Once free agency came along, that disappeared, because after four years a player just signs with another team rather than being promoted from the bench.