Jay Gruden you are our only hope

[Kindoy]

Seen too many good QBs make crappy O-lines look good to put this all on the OL

Edit: by "look good" I mean serviceable.

[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by Kindoy

Seen too many good QBs make crappy O-lines look good to put this all on the OL

Notice how you said good QB's and not developing QB's. No one is arguing that Tom Brady cant make his OL better. We are saying Tom Brady would be no where near as good today if he was under constant pressure and had to rely on faking out a DE and running himself in his first couple of years.

Aaron Rodgers... You really should listen to people in the know about how terrible his footwork and technique were early on. He was a Tedford disciple. The hold the football above your ear when dropping back technique. Some people associated with GB at the time said Rodgers would have busted as bad as Ryan Leaf if he had to play as a rookie. Even Rodgers first year as a starter was not impressive, and he was 4 or 5 years into the league at that point.

Rodgers can make a bad OL look good... now... after his development. That says nothing about developing a QB though. If they arent developed properly, they arent making a bad OL look good, except maybe RG3 as a rookie with an offense designed with no thought of actually developing him.

Development matters... I still cant understand how most think its completely unimportant.

[saden1]

Wow, people still think Jay Gruden is a good coach. When Snyder and co are doing the evaluation of the coaches how can you expect the coaches to be any good? How do you reconcile Allen saying "we don't have gaping holes" with reality? How can you give your hard earned dollars to watch this filth?


Bruce Arians....amazing. Jay Gruden...shit on a stick.

[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by saden1

Wow, people still think Jay Gruden is a good coach. When Snyder and co are doing the evaluation of the coaches how can you expect the coaches to be any good? How do you reconcile Allen saying "we don't have gaping holes" with reality? How can you give your hard earned dollars to watch this filth?


Bruce Arians....amazing. Jay Gruden...shit on a stick.

I have always wondered what people are thinking when they say that we are such a terrible team that no coach could succeed with this cast. Only to then turn around and claim the coach to be the problem while acting like our team is loaded with talent. Comparing our talent to Az is laughable, especially that defense. Would a single player on our defense even be able to start for them?

Its like cutting a tomato in half and wondering why you dont get half an apple and half a watermelon.

[Kindoy]

Originally Posted by Skinzman

I have always wondered what people are thinking when they say that we are such a terrible team that no coach could succeed with this cast. Only to then turn around and claim the coach to be the problem while acting like our team is loaded with talent. Comparing our talent to Az is laughable, especially that defense. Would a single player on our defense even be able to start for them?

Its like cutting a tomato in half and wondering why you dont get half an apple and half a watermelon.

Yes

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Skinzman

I have always wondered what people are thinking when they say that we are such a terrible team that no coach could succeed with this cast. Only to then turn around and claim the coach to be the problem while acting like our team is loaded with talent. Comparing our talent to Az is laughable, especially that defense. Would a single player on our defense even be able to start for them?

Its like cutting a tomato in half and wondering why you dont get half an apple and half a watermelon.

Pssst....they got a whole bunch of scrubs starting for them with Abraham, Dockett and Washington out. They are a well coached team not stacked with over paid under achievers. Coaching plus drafting plus good front office equals wins.

[Rotten1980]

Originally Posted by Skinzman

Notice how you said good QB's and not developing QB's. No one is arguing that Tom Brady cant make his OL better. We are saying Tom Brady would be no where near as good today if he was under constant pressure and had to rely on faking out a DE and running himself in his first couple of years.

Aaron Rodgers... You really should listen to people in the know about how terrible his footwork and technique were early on. He was a Tedford disciple. The hold the football above your ear when dropping back technique. Some people associated with GB at the time said Rodgers would have busted as bad as Ryan Leaf if he had to play as a rookie. Even Rodgers first year as a starter was not impressive, and he was 4 or 5 years into the league at that point.

Rodgers can make a bad OL look good... now... after his development. That says nothing about developing a QB though. If they arent developed properly, they arent making a bad OL look good, except maybe RG3 as a rookie with an offense designed with no thought of actually developing him.

Development matters... I still cant understand how most think its completely unimportant.

Agreed, development is important. Even the pro ready Andrew Luck is still developing, a lot. There was just a write up last week about how the Colts are expecting much improvement from Luck.

RG came to a bad team with horrible management. Bad situation. It's got to start at the top though, from ownership on down. One player can never fix a whole franchise.

[Kindoy]

Originally Posted by Skinzman

Notice how you said good QB's and not developing QB's. No one is arguing that Tom Brady cant make his OL better. We are saying Tom Brady would be no where near as good today if he was under constant pressure and had to rely on faking out a DE and running himself in his first couple of years.

Aaron Rodgers... You really should listen to people in the know about how terrible his footwork and technique were early on. He was a Tedford disciple. The hold the football above your ear when dropping back technique. Some people associated with GB at the time said Rodgers would have busted as bad as Ryan Leaf if he had to play as a rookie. Even Rodgers first year as a starter was not impressive, and he was 4 or 5 years into the league at that point.

Rodgers can make a bad OL look good... now... after his development. That says nothing about developing a QB though. If they arent developed properly, they arent making a bad OL look good, except maybe RG3 as a rookie with an offense designed with no thought of actually developing him.

Development matters... I still cant understand how most think its completely unimportant.

Just seems like during the short stretch when Colt played that the OL was less of an issue. Not saying that Colt is the answer or that I want him in - let's not turn this into that, but I'm just not 100% convinced that this OL can't be worked with/around.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by Skinzman

Notice how you said good QB's and not developing QB's. No one is arguing that Tom Brady cant make his OL better. We are saying Tom Brady would be no where near as good today if he was under constant pressure and had to rely on faking out a DE and running himself in his first couple of years.



Aaron Rodgers... You really should listen to people in the know about how terrible his footwork and technique were early on. He was a Tedford disciple. The hold the football above your ear when dropping back technique. Some people associated with GB at the time said Rodgers would have busted as bad as Ryan Leaf if he had to play as a rookie. Even Rodgers first year as a starter was not impressive, and he was 4 or 5 years into the league at that point.



Rodgers can make a bad OL look good... now... after his development. That says nothing about developing a QB though. If they arent developed properly, they arent making a bad OL look good, except maybe RG3 as a rookie with an offense designed with no thought of actually developing him.



Development matters... I still cant understand how most think its completely unimportant.

You are COMPLETELY ASSUMING that Griff is able to be developed. That he has what it takes to be developed. Brady, Rodgers, All these great qb's have what it takes to be great for years with consistency. Do you atleast acknowledge the fact that Griff might not?
Edit: Rodgers passed for over 4,000 yards and threw 28 td's with 13 int's his first year starting.

[Hijinx]

Originally Posted by punch it in

You are COMPLETELY ASSUMING that Griff is able to be developed. That he has what it takes to be developed. Brady, Rodgers, All these great qb's have what it takes to be great for years with consistency. Do you atleast acknowledge the fact that Griff might not?
Edit: Rodgers passed for over 4,000 yards and threw 28 td's with 13 int's his first year starting.

Brady's 1st year stating he went to the Pro Bowl and lead the Pats to a SuperBowl win.

I mean,I am sure RG3 is right there at that level, too.

[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by Hijinx

Brady's 1st year stating he went to the Pro Bowl and lead the Pats to a SuperBowl win.

I mean,I am sure RG3 is right there at that level, too.

Given that Brady is one of the greatest of all time, I could say that Brees sucks compared to Brady, and its not a far fetched statement. Saying one QB sucks when he is compared to Brady because he is lacking something is down right stupid.

If any of you actually thought at any time that RG3 was the next Brady, you are clearly lacking when it comes to football. I have defended RG3 plenty and have never once in my life thought he would be the next Tom Brady. I dont even know why that comparison is being made.

For as shitty as you guys call RG3, had we had Seattles defense and RG3 played absolutely no different, you would be calling him the franchise savior. Since 20 points with that defense wins 80-90% of the time. With our defense, 20 points loses more often than not. So no different play and a dominant defense completely changes almost everyones opinion of him. I know... I know... Defense doesnt matter, only the QB.

Btw, That NE team was light years ahead of ours in terms of talent across the board. Remember Belicheks early defenses. They were down right nasty. I know... I know... Defense doesnt matter, only the QB.

[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by punch it in

You are COMPLETELY ASSUMING that Griff is able to be developed. That he has what it takes to be developed. Brady, Rodgers, All these great qb's have what it takes to be great for years with consistency. Do you atleast acknowledge the fact that Griff might not?
Edit: Rodgers passed for over 4,000 yards and threw 28 td's with 13 int's his first year starting.

Its always completely assumed that a QB can be developed, just like you are assuming that given the right parts around him, Griffin would bust. Peyton Manning had a ton of doubters coming out of college with huge amounts of people saying Ryan Leaf would be better, but there were some that assumed he could be developed. It was also completely assumed that Ryan Leaf could be developed.

The fact is, unless its done properly, you will never know. Is it possible that Griffin was never going to be a good QB? Sure its possible. Something being possible doesnt mean much when assuming since the exact opposite could also be possible. If we are going to deal in possibilities and assumptions, then we should resign sexy rexy. After all, he was a starter in the SB, so him making the SB as a starter... is possible.

Btw... The record of the packers was 6-10 in Rodgers' first year. Since most dont think any other position matters and win/loss record completely falls on the QB, Rodgers had a bad first year starting (4th year in the league) by the standards that keep being presented to me.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by Skinzman

Its always completely assumed that a QB can be developed, just like you are assuming that given the right parts around him, Griffin would bust. Peyton Manning had a ton of doubters coming out of college with huge amounts of people saying Ryan Leaf would be better, but there were some that assumed he could be developed. It was also completely assumed that Ryan Leaf could be developed.



The fact is, unless its done properly, you will never know. Is it possible that Griffin was never going to be a good QB? Sure its possible. Something being possible doesnt mean much when assuming since the exact opposite could also be possible. If we are going to deal in possibilities and assumptions, then we should resign sexy rexy. After all, he was a starter in the SB, so him making the SB as a starter... is possible.



Btw... The record of the packers was 6-10 in Rodgers' first year. Since most dont think any other position matters and win/loss record completely falls on the QB, Rodgers had a bad first year starting (4th year in the league) by the standards that keep being presented to me.

Come on man....they forgot about Favre almost overnite. Also im not assuming Griff wont succeed with the rite pieces around him. Im just calling it like I see it rite now as it stands. Rite now he isnt playing well. I have no idea if the organization or the man can fix that. My gut says no, but we will see.

[Bucket]

Originally Posted by punch it in

You are COMPLETELY ASSUMING that Griff is able to be developed. That he has what it takes to be developed. Brady, Rodgers, All these great qb's have what it takes to be great for years with consistency. Do you atleast acknowledge the fact that Griff might not?
Edit: Rodgers passed for over 4,000 yards and threw 28 td's with 13 int's his first year starting.

And you are assuming he can't.

[Hijinx]

Originally Posted by Bucket

And you are assuming he can't.

I am assuming nothing, I can see what is on the field.