Obama Care

[budw38]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

The right is selfish and says "F you" to the rest of society; The left is all about helping people and "the greater good".

Yah - No condescension in that sentiment.

Would the position of " the left "be .... If john gets an A , and Susan gets an F , that we should change Johns A to C and Susans F to C for the common good ? Maybe for the good of college football the NCAA should ask the SEC to stop playing in the BSC Chamionship so the Big Ten or Pac 10 can win one .

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

The right is selfish and says "F you" to the rest of society; The left is all about helping people and "the greater good".

Yah - No condescension in that sentiment.

No the right say's "F you" to stupid post like this. Funny how everytime the left uses the term (the greater good) they stick out their hands wanting everyone else money. Hey they do have organizations you can join to rais your own money to donate to who ever you want to help. Stop begging and start earing.

[budw38]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

I thought self concerned was less harsh than self centered, and really what I mean is not selfish, just more concerned about his/her own immediate situation.

That may be true for some , probably like a father who uses " tough love " when rasing his son , so he will be " better " prepared for adulthood , when some may see the father as less compassioante ?

[Ruhskins]

I'm beginning to think this is becoming a pointless thread. Just like in the real debate, those on the opposing side have dug in and won't budge, those that are for this reform keep attacking those that oppose it, and both side will shit on anyone who stands in the middle.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Do you not you feel a certain level of responsibility for your employees or is it all about everyone for themselves?

I mean this is basically the fundamental difference between the left and right. The right is generally more self concerned and the left is generally more willing to give for the greater good of everyone else.

We are all free to do as we please so long as we're not breaking the law. If FD doesn't want to provide care for his employees that's perfectly fine. When his employees vote for a Socialist Marxist Tyrant who collects a 90% tax on his business income that's fine too. All battles are won and lost in the ballot box, conservatives and liberals need to stop their insipid whining and go win in the f*cking ballot box battles.

p.s. Don't worry conservatives, you don't have to do shit for anybody and I don't expect you to but I will be damned if I don't vote.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by saden1

We are all free to do as we please so long as we're not breaking the law. If FD doesn't want to provide care for his employees that's perfectly fine. When his employees vote for a Socialist Marxist Tyrant who collects a 90% tax on his business income that's fine too. All battles are won and lost in the ballot box, conservatives and liberals need to stop their insipid whining and go win in the f*cking ballot box battles.

p.s. Don't worry conservatives, you don't have to do shit for anybody and I don't expect you to but I will be damned if I don't vote.

That's stupid, and an overstatement.

[joethiesmanfan]

Originally Posted by firstdown

No the right say's "F you" to stupid post like this. Funny how everytime the left uses the term (the greater good) they stick out their hands wanting everyone else money. Hey they do have organizations you can join to rais your own money to donate to who ever you want to help. Stop begging and start earing.

CEOS earn alot of money, but without the hard work of their workers in their corporation they get nothing. Without the share holders, they get nothing. People get angry when a CEO takes his check and stiffs his workes and the share holders, then floats off with a golden parachute. Things have devolved to the point it's hurting the country. The goal is no longer productivity or a strong America, but a big bonus. After a bonus of several million who cares what happens next. Outsource jobs overseas and take your big bonus. Who cares if that hurts America. So when democracy kicks in (which keeps our capitalist system from becoming pure capitalism or "feudalism") no complaining. No American is guarateed a job and no bounas shall go untaxed. People pretend they made that money all by themselves in a vacuum. This is not a vacuum but a democracy. Elections will come again soon, and the will of the peopl will be revealed.

[MTK]

Some seem to be running wild with what I said so I want to clarify. I was simply referring to the differing views that the left/right has when it comes to social issues and programs such as welfare, national healthcare, etc.

I certainly was not trying to say everyone on the right is selfish and everyone on the left is generous. Just saying there are fundamental differences in the way both sides approach these social issues.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by GMScud

That's stupid, and an overstatement.

Why is it stupid and an overstatement?

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by saden1

Why is it stupid and an overstatement?

By saying "don't worry conservatives, you don't have to do shit for anybody," aren't you saying that conservatives "worry" about having to help people? That's what I took from it. If so, I find that a stupid overstatement. By overstatement I guess mean big exaggeration. Or maybe mis-statement is better wording.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Seeing how this thread now suffers the LastPageLink disease, maybe SmootSmack can look down upon us and open a new thread-maybe called:

ObamaCare: Episode 5-The Empire Strikes Back

and in 10 years when we revisit this we will start with:

ObamaCare - episode 1: the Phantom HC menace
episode 2: Attack of the PC clone wars (pc=politically correct)
episode 3: Revenge of the sick

and obviously this threads title will have to be changed to -

ObamaCare Episode 4- a New Hope

So I am quoting myself with the plea to maybe close this and if necessary open a follow up. This one has run its course...

[saden1]

Originally Posted by GMScud

By saying "don't worry conservatives, you don't have to do shit for anybody," aren't you saying that conservatives "worry" about having to help people? That's what I took from it. If so, I find that a stupid overstatement. By overstatement I guess mean big exaggeration. Or maybe mis-statement is better wording.

No, I meant it in the nicest way. I have no expectation of what you should and shouldn't do is what I meant. I support your freedom to do as you please.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Do you not you feel a certain level of responsibility for your employees or is it all about everyone for themselves?

I can't speak for FD, but he wouldn't have employees with him for over 10 yrs. if he wasn't a good boss. I think most small business owners do have compassion for their employees, however at the end of the day as a business owner it's your second mortgage, or savings account, or whatever you used to acquire or build the business that's on the line every day. The business owner (and the 60 hr. + work weeks) is the ultimate factor in determining if the business suceeds of fails. If an employee decides not to show up for work you get it covered and move on. If a machine or part necessary to run your business fails you get it fixed and move on. All that comes out of profit.

As I said before, the employees won't take a pay cut when the economy goes bad, they won't cover the rent, they won't pay to fix a broken part...and they shouldn't. Their obligation to the business is to be there when they're supposed to be and put in good effort while "on the clock".

If the business fails, they go get another job. The business owner is the one that must declare bankruptcy or face years in rebuilding what he/she has lost.

That being said, there is a HUGE difference between small business and large, publicly held corporations controlled by boards. The shennanigans that go on at that level are a problem and are similar to what goes on with gov't. People on those boards are making decisions to benefit themselves using other people's money (shareholders).

I mean this is basically the fundamental difference between the left and right. The right is generally more self concerned and the left is generally more willing to give for the greater good of everyone else.

I do agree with your point, but with a clarification for what I think. Folks who are more conservative believe more in self-determination and responsibility and don't normally have or expect a safety net from someone else (gov't), hence that makes them more self-concerned. Folks on the left have a more collective approach and hence believe gov't has the responsibility to provide things. I think both sides have compassion, the difference is the right believes it is their choice to be compassionate the left believes gov't should decide because many won't do it on their own.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

I can't speak for FD, but he wouldn't have employees with him for over 10 yrs. if he wasn't a good boss. I think most small business owners do have compassion for their employees, however at the end of the day as a business owner it's your second mortgage, or savings account, or whatever you used to acquire or build the business that's on the line every day. The business owner (and the 60 hr. + work weeks) is the ultimate factor in determining if the business suceeds of fails. If an employee decides not to show up for work you get it covered and move on. If a machine or part necessary to run your business fails you get it fixed and move on. All that comes out of profit.

As I said before, the employees won't take a pay cut when the economy goes bad, they won't cover the rent, they won't pay to fix a broken part...and they shouldn't. Their obligation to the business is to be there when they're supposed to be and put in good effort while "on the clock".

If the business fails, they go get another job. The business owner is the one that must declare bankruptcy or face years in rebuilding what he/she has lost.

That being said, there is a HUGE difference between small business and large, publicly held corporations controlled by boards. The shennanigans that go on at that level are a problem and are similar to what goes on with gov't. People on those boards are making decisions to benefit themselves using other people's money (shareholders).

I do agree with your point, but with a clarification for what I think. Folks who are more conservative believe more in self-determination and responsibility and don't normally have or expect a safety net from someone else (gov't), hence that makes them more self-concerned. Folks on the left have a more collective approach and hence believe gov't has the responsibility to provide things. I think both sides have compassion, the difference is the right believes it is their choice to be compassionate the left believes gov't should decide because many won't do it on their own.

Great post. And the last paragraph in bold is exactly what I was saying in my earlier post.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by GMScud

Great post. And the last paragraph in bold is exactly what I was saying in my earlier post.

Thanks. I missed your post, just went back and saw it. I should've referenced your post, you said it much better than I did.