David Macklin our new CB

[Skinz4life]

Does anyone think that this might set up a swap with Detriot? Our 6th pick and Springs for Detroits #2 pick - this would enable us to select C. Johnson.

[over the mountain]

from the skins point of view: springs said at the end of the season he would be surprised if he is back, he was shopped around with the lions and broncos, the team seems very interested in calvin and thinks he is the only impact player in the draft worth top 10 money, he is due to make 7.5 mil this year and more next year, he decided against surgery last year (ala coles), skins have done surprisingly well in adding value depth at corner with smoot and cheap macklin

from the lions: lost bly and have noone at corner with lil in the FA market or trade mills, too embarrased and financially commited to wr already to draft calvin and has been reported to be enamored with gaines adams (nice fit for them maybe) who is slotted to fall around the 6th pick

so yeah my gut is starting to think the skins already have a contingent trade in order with the lions if calvin falls to 2, which sucks cuz they flooded wr last year convinced it was the one position keeping us from the superbowl becuase it would stretch the field but YOU CANT STRETCH THE FIELD WITH BRUNNELS ARM OR ULTRA CONSERVATIVE DECISION MAKING (thank you gibbs coaching) . . .

[RobH4413]

Please say no to CJ. It's just stupid in this offense.


We're a run oriented offense. When we pass, we have options (moss, are, lloyd, portis, betts, COOLEY!). We don't need any more. It's doesn't make sense.

Joe Gibbs runs the ball, and stops the run. We don't need a receiver, especially with how great of a need we have at defensive line.

No more fantasy... let's be practical and address what we actually need, instead of trying to sell more jerseys.

[over the mountain]

if you owned the 6th pick and have major needs at DL you could not ask for a better draft scenario, man im going to feel weird on draft day if we draft calvin, i just hope we dont include next years 1st

[skinsfan242]

Originally Posted by RobH4413

Please say no to CJ. It's just stupid in this offense.


We're a run oriented offense. When we pass, we have options (moss, are, lloyd, portis, betts, COOLEY!). We don't need any more. It's doesn't make sense.

Joe Gibbs runs the ball, and stops the run. We don't need a receiver, especially with how great of a need we have at defensive line.

No more fantasy... let's be practical and address what we actually need, instead of trying to sell more jerseys.

Let's clear a few thing up here. CJ would fit a run first offsense perfectly, he is a possession receiver who can also stretch the field, and can also block. He is a perfect complement to Moss and ARE.

Second, the skins don't want to restructure Springs because that means if we cut him next year our cap hit would be much higher, the Redskins asked him to take a paycut and he said no, they did not ask him to restructure.

Third, although our Dline needs another player or two, we have two second year players at DT who are going to be better. Carter will be better, and there is no way we have a down year on the whole dline. Our Dline still has the same players that led to a number 3 defense.

The only thing that should prevent us from trading up to get CJ, is if someone offers us a can't miss trade down deal, before the draft. Or, if we have to part with more than a swap and our second rounder next year. Or if we throw in Springs (not a good idea), they need to give us a third or 4th rounder.

Our FO needs to remember we have the advantage, Detroit doesn't want that pick. They need to draw the line in the sand just like they did with Briggs and say this is what we think he is worth, nothing more.

[RobH4413]

Originally Posted by skinsfan242

Let's clear a few thing up here. CJ would fit a run first offsense perfectly, he is a possession receiver who can also stretch the field, and can also block. He is a perfect complement to Moss and ARE.

I didn't say CJ wouldn't fit here, I said we don't need him here, and it's true... we don't. We're a run oriented offense, meaning that adding CJ wouldn't impact this team the way someone on the DL would.

We have talented receivers, and signing someone to a huge contract for a position we really don't need is insanity.

Originally Posted by skinsfan242

Third, although our Dline needs another player or two, we have two second year players at DT who are going to be better. Carter will be better, and there is no way we have a down year on the whole dline. Our Dline still has the same players that led to a number 3 defense.

Yes your right, we have the same players that led to a number 3 defense... several years and injuries later. That same defensive line also led to last years near last ranked defense. Your argument is terrible. Our d-line is getting old and we need some youth to upgrade.

I think many will agree with me that going into this year with the same d-line is a terrible mistake.

[skinsfan242]

Yes your right, we have the same players that led to a number 3 defense... several years and injuries later. That same defensive line also led to last years near last ranked defense. Your argument is terrible. Our d-line is getting old and we need some youth to upgrade.

I think many will agree with me that going into this year with the same d-line is a terrible mistake.[/quote]

I'm just saying although we could use a player, if we can get CJ it would create much more value to this team. We don't have a possession player on the team outside of Cooley. I'm not arguing we don't need someone, just there is worthy at number 6. Our first option should be to trade down and second should be to try to get CJ. I honestly wish we would just sign I. Scott.

[SmootSmack]

242, who would you say are the best receivers in the game today?

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by skinsfan242

I'm just saying although we could use a player, if we can get CJ it would create much more value to this team. We don't have a possession player on the team outside of Cooley. I'm not arguing we don't need someone, just there is worthy at number 6. Our first option should be to trade down and second should be to try to get CJ. I honestly wish we would just sign I. Scott.

What?
Why in the world would you go for CJ when you just admitted that we had a horrible DL?
Even if in 2017 we look back and CJ became the stud that everyone thinks he is, I still say NO! We don't need him. We have a lot of talent at WR, we did not have the capability to utilyze them properly in 06. Even Jerry Rice in his prime would have been nearly useless with Brunell last year, and Campbell throwing at a little over 50% comp. So if our holes are on the D, why not address them?
A lot of people here complain that we do not use the draft to address problems but instead choose FA to fill those holes. Well, here's our chance to actually do something with a real draft pick. I really don't care if we trade down for more picks, but those picks better address our D problems. I am not wanting to go through ANOTHER season of no penetration!
It all starts with penetration!!! (giggidy)

[jsarno]

Oh, I forgot...Macklin is a good pick up...especially since he costs NOTHING against the cap.

[skinsfan242]

Originally Posted by jsarno

What?
Why in the world would you go for CJ when you just admitted that we had a horrible DL?
Even if in 2017 we look back and CJ became the stud that everyone thinks he is, I still say NO! We don't need him. We have a lot of talent at WR, we did not have the capability to utilyze them properly in 06. Even Jerry Rice in his prime would have been nearly useless with Brunell last year, and Campbell throwing at a little over 50% comp. So if our holes are on the D, why not address them?
A lot of people here complain that we do not use the draft to address problems but instead choose FA to fill those holes. Well, here's our chance to actually do something with a real draft pick. I really don't care if we trade down for more picks, but those picks better address our D problems. I am not wanting to go through ANOTHER season of no penetration!
It all starts with penetration!!! (giggidy)

The Receivers? I would say, Steve Smith, Chad Johnson, Reggie Wayne, T.O., Marvin Harrison, and Andre Johnson.

I still say the first option is to trade down and then we can pick Dline, no-one is worth the 6th pick on the dline. But I still think if you have a chance to take by far the best player in the Draft you have to, No question. Draft dline with every pick in the 5,6, and 7th rounds and hope someone works out.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by skinsfan242

The Receivers? I would say, Steve Smith, Chad Johnson, Reggie Wayne, T.O., Marvin Harrison, and Andre Johnson.

I still say the first option is to trade down and then we can pick Dline, no-one is worth the 6th pick on the dline. But I still think if you have a chance to take by far the best player in the Draft you have to, No question. Draft dline with every pick in the 5,6, and 7th rounds and hope someone works out.

I would pretty much agree with that list. Maybe add in Randy Moss and possibly Roy Williams.

But anyway, what I'm getting at is-with the exception of Harrison and Wayne-the best receivers were not in the playoffs last year. Instead you had guys like Reche Caldwell, Bernard Berrian, Vincent Jackson. So how much of an impact is CJ going to have? I think his best value to the Redskins, if still there at #6, is as trade bait

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by skinsfan242

The Receivers? I would say, Steve Smith, Chad Johnson, Reggie Wayne, T.O., Marvin Harrison, and Andre Johnson.

I still say the first option is to trade down and then we can pick Dline, no-one is worth the 6th pick on the dline. But I still think if you have a chance to take by far the best player in the Draft you have to, No question. Draft dline with every pick in the 5,6, and 7th rounds and hope someone works out.

Let me play devil's advocate for a second.

What makes Calvin Johnson the best player in the draft? Hype? A 40 time? A vertical leap? The extra year of college EXP that he left on the table? Because Reggie Ball sucks? What Todd McShay thinks? What my neighbor thinks? A combination of the above?

I think we can both agree that all the above are bad reasons to consider any prospect to be the best in the draft. So what are some good reasons to be of the opinion that CJ is the best player of the draft?

Honest film evaluation? Advanced statistical analysis? Finding similarities and differences between bust WRs and great WRs and seeing which group CJ more assimilates too?

I would say that these are some good ways to evalute Calvin Johnson as a draft prospect. I would also assume that 95% or more of the people who think CJ is the best prospect in this draft think so for one--or a combination--of the reasons mentioned three paragraphs ago.

Somebody please correct me if I'm way off base here.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by skinsfan242

I'm just saying although we could use a player, if we can get CJ it would create much more value to this team. We don't have a possession player on the team outside of Cooley. I'm not arguing we don't need someone, just there is worthy at number 6. Our first option should be to trade down and second should be to try to get CJ. I honestly wish we would just sign I. Scott.

Just two questions:

1)How many possession players does a team really need?
2)What makes Santana Moss a poor possession player but makes CJ a great possession player? Size alone?

Ian Scott gives us an immediate solution at DT, but doesn't fix our biggest problem, and that's a lack of youth on the DL. If we were to draft a DL and sign Ian Scott, who gets cut? Saleve'a? Golston? Montgomery? Do we keep 6 on the 53 man roster?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by jsarno

What?
Why in the world would you go for CJ when you just admitted that we had a horrible DL?
Even if in 2017 we look back and CJ became the stud that everyone thinks he is, I still say NO! We don't need him. We have a lot of talent at WR, we did not have the capability to utilyze them properly in 06. Even Jerry Rice in his prime would have been nearly useless with Brunell last year, and Campbell throwing at a little over 50% comp. So if our holes are on the D, why not address them?
A lot of people here complain that we do not use the draft to address problems but instead choose FA to fill those holes. Well, here's our chance to actually do something with a real draft pick. I really don't care if we trade down for more picks, but those picks better address our D problems. I am not wanting to go through ANOTHER season of no penetration!
It all starts with penetration!!! (giggidy)

Good post, Jsarno.

Let's say that Calvin Johnson pans out as a great receiver. Not historically great or anything, just great. He's the next Reggie Wayne or Larry Fitzgerald.

Would he still be worth what we COULD have had with the 6th PLUS what we could have had with the stuff we gave up to get the 2nd pick?

The simple answer is theres just no way. Lets say 5 years into his career, he surpasses Moss as our go to 3rd down target. So for the first four years of his career he was a good player along for the ride, and now Moss is up there in years and has restructured his contract multiple times and is on his way out. So now, finally in 2011, we are going to turn CJ into a pro bowl receiver.

Nevermind that our defense was among the leagues worst from 2006-2009. Nevermind that our offense has ranked 10, 6, 7, and 11 respectively over the last four years. Nevermind that we have been above .500 once in the past 5 seasons. WE HAVE OUR FIRST PRO BOWL RECEIVER SINCE MOSS 2008!!!! He goes on over the next 8 years to put a borderline HOF career togehter. Eventually in the twighlight of JC's career, we start to make the playoffs every year because our D begins to ressurect itself after being ignored in the first round of the draft for years since the pick of perennial #2 CB, Carlos Rogers.

What a wonderful freakin pick.