Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by djnemo65

How is making a profitable film not free-enterprise? That's why I never understood the complaint that Michael Moore makes money off his films. If free enterprise is the most perfect system and a film maker is succesful within that system, what's the problem?

But what you're missing is we're all bitching about the gas companies. Moore has every right to make those films, I'm not suggesting that he doesn't have the right, but when he makes those statements, he should back them up with his participation. That's like someone standing up and saying to give money to save the planet, but doesn't do it himself. In other words, hypocracy.

[djnemo65]

Originally Posted by jsarno

But what you're missing is we're all bitching about the gas companies. Moore has every right to make those films, I'm not suggesting that he doesn't have the right, but when he makes those statements, he should back them up with his participation. That's like someone standing up and saying to give money to save the planet, but doesn't do it himself. In other words, hypocracy.

I'm not following you here....

[dmek25]

that was me and it just reeks when a Texas oil man, that resides in the white house, governs over the highest oil prices in this nations history. i just say when i see a spade, i call it a spade. the last time i checked, Michael Moore is still in the private sect

[MTK]

alright so back to the topic, does anyone else feel that it's a huge conflict of interest when you mix health care with private industry?

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

alright so back to the topic, does anyone else feel that it's a huge conflict of interest when you mix health care with private industry?

How is it a conflict of interest when health care already is a private industry? I guess I don't see health care as a right...you are asking someone that is highly trained to help you. Just like you ask a mechanic to fix your car.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by jsarno

How is it a conflict of interest when health care already is a private industry? I guess I don't see health care as a right...you are asking someone that is highly trained to help you. Just like you ask a mechanic to fix your car.

Jeez I'd like to think human life is a little more valuable than a car.

I believe everyone should be entitled to health care. I don't know where we got lost along the way, but the basics of helping your fellow man and caring for those less fortunate somehow got twisted into being things that have a price on them. I think that's sad... and when doctors have to make decisions based on financial considerations, I think that's where the conflict of interest comes into play.

[BigSKINBauer]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Jeez I'd like to think human life is a little more valuable than a car.

I believe everyone should be entitled to health care. I don't know where we got lost along the way, but the basics of helping your fellow man and caring for those less fortunate somehow got twisted into being things that have a price on them. I think that's sad... and when doctors have to make decisions based on financial considerations, I think that's where the conflict of interest comes into play.

Agreed. Now again, i don't know how much moore was twisting but everywhere he went financial considerations were not taken. The british doctor said he would hate his job if he had to take that consideration. Doesn't it just sound like a better society? People being able to be treated for their health related problems without having to worry about money. If the government is to regulate anything it is our safety, education of our future, and our health. Really what is more important?

And again our safety can be privatized as well as our education so i have no problem allowing people to have private healthcare, so long as those that cannot afford it have a healthcare system that will take care of them when they need it.

Why do we need a middleman. Treatment shouldn't be from the doctor to the insurance company then to the patient. Insurance companies shouldn't have to decide. Your treatment should be choosen by you and your doctor. Whats best for you and your health. I don't understand why we are the only country in the top 25 industrialized countries that doesn't have universal healthcare. I can't say we are right and everyone is wrong. As moore says, we need to take something from each healthcare system around the world that works. We don't need to copy a whole system but take what each country does best and put it together. Make it the american system.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by BigSKINBauer

Agreed. Now again, i don't know how much moore was twisting but everywhere he went financial considerations were not taken. The british doctor said he would hate his job if he had to take that consideration. Doesn't it just sound like a better society. People being able to be treated for their health related problems without having to worry about money? If the government is to regulate anything it is our safety, education of our future, and our health. Really what is more important?

I know this point may have been oversimplified in the movie but yeah, how much better of a society could we be if people didn't have the stresses of the costs involved with health care?

If you are sick you should be able to seek treatment without having to worry about what it's going to cost you. The stories in the movie of the old guy working at the supermarket just for benefits for him and his wife, and the man and woman who had to sell their house and move in with their daughter due to all the debt they had from health costs really just breaks your heart.

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Jeez I'd like to think human life is a little more valuable than a car.

I believe everyone should be entitled to health care. I don't know where we got lost along the way, but the basics of helping your fellow man and caring for those less fortunate somehow got twisted into being things that have a price on them. I think that's sad... and when doctors have to make decisions based on financial considerations, I think that's where the conflict of interest comes into play.

Can we not put doctor's up on these huge pedestals please. To me, they are the reason that health care costs have gone through the roof. They have allowed the drug companies to compromise their interests for years now, but nobody wants to call them out. Go to a used bookstore, get a copy of the P.D.R. (physicians desk reference) and you will have enough info to do what 95% of these doctors do all day everyday: prescribe drugs. I haven't been to one since 1992 and I am fit as a fiddle. Eat healthy and exercise, stay away drom doctors, and then we can help out the people who really need treatment for the cancer and such. If something costs too much, don't buy it unless you absolutely have to. Look at anti-biotics. These doctors have caused dangerous new strains of germs to emerge because they have given out anti-biotics like candy since the 1950s. I blame the doctors first and foremost. If they deserved the reputations they seem to have with people, they would have put a stop to this a long time ago. I guess they couldn't find the answer in the P.D.R. so they were stumped. Doctors blow.

[BigSKINBauer]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

Can we not put doctor's up on these huge pedestals please. To me, they are the reason that health care costs have gone through the roof. They have allowed the drug companies to compromise their interests for years now, but nobody wants to call them out. Go to a used bookstore, get a copy of the P.D.R. (physicians desk reference) and you will have enough info to do what 95% of these doctors do all day everyday: prescribe drugs. I haven't been to one since 1992 and I am fit as a fiddle. Eat healthy and exercise, stay away drom doctors, and then we can help out the people who really need treatment for the cancer and such. If something costs too much, don't buy it unless you absolutely have to. Look at anti-biotics. These doctors have caused dangerous new strains of germs to emerge because they have given out anti-biotics like candy since the 1950s. I blame the doctors first and foremost. If they deserved the reputations they seem to have with people, they would have put a stop to this a long time ago. I guess they couldn't find the answer in the P.D.R. so they were stumped. Doctors blow.

Very true. Greed is a horrible thing in a society. However, this is reason for more regulation

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

Can we not put doctor's up on these huge pedestals please. To me, they are the reason that health care costs have gone through the roof. They have allowed the drug companies to compromise their interests for years now, but nobody wants to call them out. Go to a used bookstore, get a copy of the P.D.R. (physicians desk reference) and you will have enough info to do what 95% of these doctors do all day everyday: prescribe drugs. I haven't been to one since 1992 and I am fit as a fiddle. Eat healthy and exercise, stay away drom doctors, and then we can help out the people who really need treatment for the cancer and such. If something costs too much, don't buy it unless you absolutely have to. Look at anti-biotics. These doctors have caused dangerous new strains of germs to emerge because they have given out anti-biotics like candy since the 1950s. I blame the doctors first and foremost. If they deserved the reputations they seem to have with people, they would have put a stop to this a long time ago. I guess they couldn't find the answer in the P.D.R. so they were stumped. Doctors blow.

Damn insulting both my mom and my dad in one fell swoop. Anyhow, my dad and I don't discuss his practice much but my understanding is that he's not better off because of rising health care costs. In fact, it's worse for him.

Is there a doctor in the house?

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Jeez I'd like to think human life is a little more valuable than a car.

I think you missed my point here. Point is, you are wanting to FORCE doctors that worked damn hard to get where they are to give you free health care. That's not right.
What do you do Matty? Imagine someone saying that you now are owned by the government and you need to do what they say.
Doctors don't go through many years of intense training and hundreds of thousands of dollars in education to be owned by the government.

I believe everyone should be entitled to health care. I don't know where we got lost along the way, but the basics of helping your fellow man and caring for those less fortunate somehow got twisted into being things that have a price on them. I think that's sad... and when doctors have to make decisions based on financial considerations, I think that's where the conflict of interest comes into play.

It's gone away cause there are SOOOOO many people willing to sit around and be lazy and take your money and my money. You are offered insurance at most places of employment...so why is it this is such a huge issue?

[BigSKINBauer]

Originally Posted by jsarno

I think you missed my point here. Point is, you are wanting to FORCE doctors that worked damn hard to get where they are to give you free health care. That's not right.
What do you do Matty? Imagine someone saying that you now are owned by the government and you need to do what they say.
Doctors don't go through many years of intense training and hundreds of thousands of dollars in education to be owned by the government.



It's gone away cause there are SOOOOO many people willing to sit around and be lazy and take your money and my money. You are offered insurance at most places of employment...so why is it this is such a huge issue?

Very true but what about the children that are uninsured? I mean 10 million children go without it. What blame is that to them? This country is about the american dream and building your own way but the truth is the poor are so much more disadvantaged. I feel at the very least children under 18 deserve health care.

Also i don't know how it would work but if the employers have built in plans that they spend money on, maybe corporations should be taxed more and that tax would go toward a nationalized health care system. Or companies transfer their savings to their employees. I don't know if that would work but they are saving and they will be able to pay their employees more and the market would adjust. Hopefully with regulation(and yes, doctors not being paid 300,000- which may not be fair) the total price on the health care system will go down.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by jsarno

I think you missed my point here. Point is, you are wanting to FORCE doctors that worked damn hard to get where they are to give you free health care. That's not right.
What do you do Matty? Imagine someone saying that you now are owned by the government and you need to do what they say.
Doctors don't go through many years of intense training and hundreds of thousands of dollars in education to be owned by the government.



It's gone away cause there are SOOOOO many people willing to sit around and be lazy and take your money and my money. You are offered insurance at most places of employment...so why is it this is such a huge issue?

Doctors would still be paid under a universal system, just maybe not as much as they are now. I guess some might have to give up their summer homes or their 2nd or 3rd beemer, but I'm sure they could adjust to such peasant living.

[firstdown]

For the people who think that the goverment should run health care please name one program that the goverment has that cost have not sky rocketed. Do we need some reform? Yes, but the federal goverment will only add to the problem. They have allready caused the price of health ins. to sky rocket by all the mandates they have required the heath ins. co. to provide under their policies. Drug addiction is one of the mandates and why should I be forced to buy this coverage if I do not use drugs?