Is Brady Quinn Being Selfish By Holding Out?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I can keep myself under control.

Ok then

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by jsarno

LOL.
HAHAHAHA.
You must be a comedian. Manning might be the best QB that has ever walked. His intelligence is far beyond any QB of today or yesterday.
Brady isn't fit to carry Manning's jock.

Agree, but good luck getting him to defend himself.

If you squeeze hard enough, you might get "Three Rings", but only if you are lucky. :tongue

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Agree, but good luck getting him to defend himself.

If you squeeze hard enough, you might get "Three Rings", but only if you are lucky. :tongue

Three rings shows a great TEAM, not a great individual.
Fact is, Manning won last year with less than any patriots team that won the SB.

[SmootSmack]

We've already the Manning v. Brady debate back in February. No need to bring it up again here.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

We've already the Manning v. Brady debate back in February. No need to bring it up again here.

Good point...there is no debate, Manning is better.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Three rings shows a great TEAM, not a great individual.
Fact is, Manning won last year with less than any patriots team that won the SB.

A logical argument! In a Brady Quinn thread.

Stop the presses!

[wilsowilso]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Agree, but good luck getting him to defend himself.

If you squeeze hard enough, you might get "Three Rings", but only if you are lucky. :tongue

As much as you try and hide from Tom Brady's greatness I know deep down inside way beyond all those stats that you hold so dearly you know that Brady is the man. You just haven't been able to come to terms with it yet. You got love for the wrong Brady Tripp.

[wilsowilso]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Good point...there is no debate, Manning is better.

You might have just set a classic debate back to the dark ages with that kind of cutting edge assessment. Not really.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by wilsowilso

As much as you try and hide from Tom Brady's greatness I know deep down inside way beyond all those stats that you hold so dearly you know that Brady is the man. You just haven't been able to come to terms with it yet. You got love for the wrong Brady Tripp.

On this weeks episode of "Where would we be without the Tuck Rule"...

I'm not a big Tom Brady fan, but I respect him for what he is...arguably the second best QB in pro football. I think he and Palmer are very close, and soon Rivers will likely surpass both of them, along with Vince Young and Matt Leinart, but for right now Brady is the model for what every young Kid should want to grow up to be. And thats because I'm not sure if we will ever see a QB better than Peyton.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by wilsowilso

You might have just set a classic debate back to the dark ages with that kind of cutting edge assessment. Not really.

<resists urge to repeat last 6 posts>

[wilsowilso]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

You've just disagreed with three fundamental NFL beliefs of mine at once, and provided no evidence for me to chew on whatsoever: That experienced college QBs make the best NFL prospects, that all QBs improve with NFL experience, and that Tom Brady is somehow better than Peyton Manning.

If you ever care to win my respect through argument, you know where to find me...

We spent 500 posts doing the Brady V. Manning thing so that's no good. I think you are right that experienced college QB's make the best prospects. Never said otherwise.

Now to the last point that all QB's improve upon arriving in the NFL. I'm not going to use stats and I know this might offend your sensibilities, but I just don't see how this idea that ALL qb's improve can be gauged by use of stats. I would say that reaching the NFL can easily become the apex of a quarterbacks career in terms of growth and development. Many quarterbacks do not improve at all upon reaching the professional level. Instead they are short circuited by the transition to the pro ranks. The complex schemes on both sides of the ball change the whole dynamic in which a young signal caller sees the football field. You are learning a new language. You have intense pressure coming from the fact that the speed of the game is far greater than anything you have ever experienced and of course you are now trying to make a living as an athlete. Many many many quarterbacks can not handle it. They step on the field as a pro and they know. I am not a pro quarterback. I want my mommy. They never make it back. It is an immediate regression in their growth and development and it happens all the time. You say ALL Qb's improve. I say the don't.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by wilsowilso

We spent 500 posts doing the Brady V. Manning thing so that's no good. I think you are right that experienced college QB's make the best prospects. Never said otherwise.

Now to the last point that all QB's improve upon arriving in the NFL. I'm not going to use stats and I know this might offend your sensibilities, but I just don't see how this idea that ALL qb's improve can be gauged by use of stats. I would say that reaching the NFL can easily become the apex of a quarterbacks career in terms of growth and development. Many quarterbacks do not improve at all upon reaching the professional level. Instead they are short circuited by the transition to the pro ranks. The complex schemes on both sides of the ball change the whole dynamic in which a young signal caller sees the football field. You are learning a new language. You have intense pressure coming from the fact that the speed of the game is far greater than anything you have ever experienced and of course you are now trying to make a living as an athlete. Many many many quarterbacks can not handle it. They step on the field as a pro and they know. I am not a pro quarterback. I want my mommy. They never make it back. It is an immediate regression in their growth and development and it happens all the time. You say ALL Qb's improve. I say the don't.

Alright, fair enough, but do you have an example of someone who fell victim to the phenemon that you suggest. Someone who not only was bad to begin with, but clearly never improved (of course assuming that the career was long enough to improve?)

And assuming that you do have an example, what similarities does this example share with Brady Quinn that makes you think you have a "poor man's Plummer" on your hands?

After all, Quinn was the most experienced college QB in the draft (save Kolb). You just agreed that that was a primarily desirable quality.


-EDIT-

Ben Roethlisberger would be an example of someone who has regressed during his pro career. However, to claim that Roethlisberger peaked at age 22, (which supports the anti-Quinn argument) you would have to be reasonably certain that he will continue to regress until hes out of the league in a few years. I believe Roethlisberger will definately improve this year, and that hes still at least 4-5 years away from his peak.

[SmootSmack]

How about Cade McNown?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

How about Cade McNown?

I think I would be justified in saying that McNown improved (from year one to two), and would have continued to improve as a QB had he been allowed to play more. Not that getting rid of him was a bad decision...

Cade McNown statistics - pro-football-reference.com


McNown did have terrible fundamentals, and being from Chicago, the first NFL game I ever went to was a battle between McNown's Bears and Ditka's Saints in 2000.

I am near 100% certain that McNown would have gotten better if given more time. But you are right Smoot, his 2nd season looks a lot like his first. If you look close, you can see a small step foward in completion %, but thats about it.

Even if I'm generous and say "All QBs not named Cade McNown will improve", I'm not sure how we could parellel that to Quinn.

I honestly don't think Cade McNown peaked at 22 though. Since he didn't play past age 23, its really an inconclusive argument at best. I always thought the Bears gave him a quick hook anyway, I mean, you invested a 1st round pick in the guy, doesn't he get more than second season to prove himself?

[wilsowilso]

I think Brady Quinn reminds me of Jake Plummer because of his athleticism and his swagger. Whenever Brady Quinn is surrounded by inferior talent like you say he had at ND I just don't think that he can make up the difference. At times Plummer showed that he could guide an inferior team to victory. The very good to great pro QB's can do exactly that on a regular basis. I guess calling him Jake Plummer Light was too harsh. Let's just call him Jake Plummer Like in my book.