Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8

[saden1]

I miss read your post, my bad. Please excuse my feeble brain, it works in mysterious ways at times.

[onlydarksets]

Originally Posted by saden1

I miss read your post, my bad. Please excuse my feeble brain, it works in mysterious ways at times.

Ditto. The internets are a fickle master. I thought you were saying that the perception of promiscuity created a fact that could be the basis for an argument. I get what you are saying now.

[saden1]

Given time? Encouraged not to post at all? This asynchronous forum, you give yourself time and if someone doesn't agree with you move on. Apparently you're moving on and taking your ball with you too. I can't speak for the mods but this is all getting into the Cancel Your Own Goddam Subscription territory.


Happy Thanksgiving, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. I wish you the best in life. Bleeding Burgundy until the day I die. Hail to the Redksins!

[SmootSmack]

I've said this a few times, I lean conservative in many respects. And I know that puts me in the minority when it comes to the more active voices on this site. It's true the conservative voices are often dismissed and ridiculed on this site. Some deservedly so, like Buster. Others, such as FRPLG, should be heard and respected. But there's no denying the pervailing tone here is left-leaning. (though curiously not so much, when you actually ask people how they lean on specific issues). I probably wouldn't go so far as "encouraged not to post" That makes it sound like the mods are suggesting if they post they will be banned, or some such action would be taken against them. That's just not going to happen.

I consider myself religious, I believe in God, I pray, I'm not a wacko. I have nothing against gays. I know gays. Some of my best friends are gay (yeah I went there with that). And I think they should get benefits. I think it's ridiculous that say irish and offiss can truly love each other, move in together, spend 10 years together and should, God forbid, anything happen to one of them the other won't get the same benefits that say Gmanc and Dynamite Rave could get should they decide to elope after one night of drunken debauchery at the Bellagio. To me, it seem backwards.

But I think understand Beem's point and I think more than that, we shouldn't be so quick to always thrown in the word "Whacko" when talking about religion. If you're not religious and you don't believe in it that's fine, but I don't think there's a need to generalize.

[onlydarksets]

Well said, SS.

This is a difficult issue to discuss, since the underpinning of the conservative argument is usually rooted in faith (i.e., homosexuality is "fundamentally" immoral). So, to attack the argument is usually to attack the faith, which does not tend to end well.

[firstdown]

THis thread has really taking a turn. I also think this thread is a great example of why not to attack a person personally but discuss the topic and just agree to disagree. I have voiced my thoughts before on the personal attacks on people rather its me, another poster, a politcal figure etc... why the need for the personal attacks? I personaly do not know enough on the subject to have a strong personal opinion either way so thats why I have stayed out of this.

[MTK]

Sorry I'm not going to apologize for having an opinion, and I've never discouraged anyone from doing the same. My comments on 'religious wackos and ignorant homophobes' was meant as a general statement (and I was not trying to say that everyone who is religious is a wacko), and not pertaining to anyone here specifically. So if anyone misconstrued that and took it personally, I apologize for the misunderstanding.

[70Chip]

I think the reality of Prop 8 is that it was actually done in by the media's desire to see Obama elected President. Here me out now. Normally the mainstream media would have done numerous stories on the referendum, all showing the homosexuals in the best possible light and the opponents as paranoid weirdos. Instead they mostly ignored it, only doing a few stories on the money aspect of the vote, very late in the race. Why would they do this? Beause the conventional wisdom in those circles is that John Kerry lost in part because several of these initiatives were on the ballot across the country. The media figured that if people made any sort of connection between Obama and Prop 8 it may hurt him in swing states like Virginia, Ohio etc. They may have even been told this explicitly by the Obama campaign. "We don't want to get tied into the prop 8 thing".

[saden1]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

I think the reality of Prop 8 is that it was actually done in by the media's desire to see Obama elected President. Here me out now. Normally the mainstream media would have done numerous stories on the referendum, all showing the homosexuals in the best possible light and the opponents as paranoid weirdos. Instead they mostly ignored it, only doing a few stories on the money aspect of the vote, very late in the race. Why would they do this? Beause the conventional wisdom in those circles is that John Kerry lost in part because several of these initiatives were on the ballot across the country. The media figured that if people made any sort of connection between Obama and Prop 8 it may hurt him in swing states like Virginia, Ohio etc. They may have even been told this explicitly by the Obama campaign. "We don't want to get tied into the prop 8 thing".

You are absolutely right. It got zero national coverage and Obama stayed away from the issue as if it was going to set him on fire if he didn't. It has been said though that most new voters that voted for Obama voted against Prop 8.

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by saden1

You are absolutely right. It got zero national coverage and Obama stayed away from the issue as if it was going to set him on fire if he didn't. It has been said though that most new voters that voted for Obama voted against Prop 8.

I'm glad we have found some commom ground.

[DynamiteRave]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Sorry I'm not going to apologize for having an opinion, and I've never discouraged anyone from doing the same. My comments on 'religious wackos and ignorant homophobes' was meant as a general statement (and I was not trying to say that everyone who is religious is a wacko), and not pertaining to anyone here specifically. So if anyone misconstrued that and took it personally, I apologize for the misunderstanding.

And I think that's exactly what that was, a general statement. I don't think he said, for example, "conservative/evangelical religious wackos", because if that's the case, I definitely know some liberal religious wackos (I grew up in a household full of them). There are always exceptions to the rule and to opinions.

I'm going to guess that if someone jumps on the offensive about the wackos/homophobe statement, they might fall into one of the two categories. Otherwise there's no reason to get your knickers in such a twist.

Plus there's no real reason to leave the board. Love for the Skins should trump everything, disagreements on sexual orientation, political parties, etc. But good luck BB.

Anyway, I digress...

[itvnetop]

I haven't read through the entire thread yet and someone may have already mentioned this already, but it's interesting to note that most ethnic groups were fairly split on the 8 vote. However, the African-American community voted 70-30 in favor of 8. The Obama push within the AA community ironically helped get Prop 8 passed in CA. There were actually predominantly black churches distributing Pro-8 pamphlets out to residents, displaying pics of ministers and Obama (seemingly tying the candidate with Prop 8).

The anti-8 protests have been extremely fierce, but seem to be misdirected. Most of the rallies are being held in anti-8 areas, such as West Hollywood (the predominantly gay area of LA) and West LA. It's kind of like they're preaching to the choir. No rallies have even stepped foot in many of the sections that overwhelmingly voted for 8, like East LA or South Central. The protesters are way more comfortable shouting outside of the Mormon Temple in liberal Century City (where most residents voted "No") instead of in front of the AME Church in Inglewood (where most voted "Yes").

[tryfuhl]

if you're against gay marriage just admit that you don't like gays or find them gross unless they're female and in that folder that you hide from your wife on the family computer

[MTK]

I'll never understand why this is such a big deal. If two consenting adults want to get married, fine. If someone feels marriage should only be between a man and a woman, I can understand that and I'm ok with that debate. But comparing gay marriage to beastiality, sodomy, and incest? Sorry but you lost me with that line of caveman thinking.

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

I'll never understand why this is such a big deal. If two consenting adults want to get married, fine. If someone feels marriage should only be between a man and a woman, I can understand that and I'm ok with that debate. But comparing gay marriage to beastiality, sodomy, and incest? Sorry but you lost me with that line of caveman thinking.

I'm guessing two dudes being married does involve the sodomy... lol