Should T.O. be a first ballot Hall of Famer?

[NLC1054]

All that matters in the Hall of Fame is numbers. How many winning season did O.J Simpson have with Buffalo while he was there? Not a whole lot. There's a lot of guys who never made it to a Super Bowl, hell, guys who never made it to a NFL/AFL/NFC/AFC Championship game.

The numbers come first, always. You get into the HOF based off numbers first and foremost.

[Leader In Sports]

Originally Posted by NLC1054

All that matters in the Hall of Fame is numbers. How many winning season did O.J Simpson have with Buffalo while he was there? Not a whole lot. There's a lot of guys who never made it to a Super Bowl, hell, guys who never made it to a NFL/AFL/NFC/AFC Championship game.

The numbers come first, always. You get into the HOF based off numbers first and foremost.

True on OJ, but OJ also changed his team. They were a much better team when he was there and you can talk to some of the guys who played with him - they just love(d) the guy. Again, none of T.O.s teams actually got better by him being on them.

[NLC1054]

As bad as T.O is...I love the guy. I know the character stuff, I know he's locker room poison...but I can't hate the guy. Him and Ochocinco.

They make the game fun to watch, if they don't always make it fun to play for the guys on the field. And as NC said, T.O is dedicated to his craft. He's always in shape, he runs the entire route tree (or most of it), he makes the quarterback he's playing with better, usually.

Should T.O get in on the first ballot? In terms of numbers, work ethic and overall impact on the game, yeah. If you want to dock him on character, there's a lot of prick's in the Hall of Fame. A ton of them. And there's plenty of guys with excellent character out of it. But I don't think he'll get in as a first ballot Hall of Famer anyway, because the press will try to humble him, or some bullshit.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by NLC1054

As bad as T.O is...I love the guy. I know the character stuff, I know he's locker room poison...but I can't hate the guy. Him and Ochocinco.

They make the game fun to watch, if they don't always make it fun to play for the guys on the field. And as NC said, T.O is dedicated to his craft. He's always in shape, he runs the entire route tree (or most of it), he makes the quarterback he's playing with better, usually.

Should T.O get in on the first ballot? In terms of numbers, work ethic and overall impact on the game, yeah. If you want to dock him on character, there's a lot of prick's in the Hall of Fame. A ton of them. And there's plenty of guys with excellent character out of it. But I don't think he'll get in as a first ballot Hall of Famer anyway, because the press will try to humble him, or some bullshit.

That's certainly not my point, or at least I would state it differently. Not saying don't let him in the hall cause he's a prick. I would "dock him" on job performance. His job performance, which for ally players includes interviews, teammate relationships & sideline conduct, was harmful to his teams.

Rather than debate "character" just look at what the guy did for his teams. He made plays but he also tore a couple teams apart.

[NLC1054]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

That's certainly not my point, or at least I would state it differently. Not saying don't let him in the hall cause he's a prick. I would "dock him" on job performance. His job performance, which for ally players includes interviews, teammate relationships & sideline conduct, was harmful to his teams.

Rather than debate "character" just look at what the guy did for his teams. He made plays but he also tore a couple teams apart.

His job performance is judged by what he did on the field and nothing else. Like I said; tons of pricks in the Hall of Fame. Tons of guys who didn't have the best relationships with their teammates, didn't handle themselves the best way in interviews, weren't boy scouts on or off the field.

I mean maybe that's the way it should be, but that's not the way it is, And there's plenty of guys without outstanding character who don't make it while total jerks do.

The Hall of Fame and it's voting process are nutty. Should he be first ballot based on his numbers? Yes. Should he be based on his overall impact on football teams? Probably not. But the voting process is so frakked up that it's hard to guess what they'll be thinking.

[TheSmurfs22]

Should he go in at some point, yes. However, not first ballot.

[44ever]

Without a Doubt!!!

[Longtimefan]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

T.O. should be a first-ballot Hall of Famer, but . . . . | ProFootballTalk

I think he should be without a doubt, his numbers are undeniable, what do you think?

Terrell Owens' strange career takes perhaps its final turn with knee injury - NFL News | FOX Sports on MSN

[Paintrain]

There's no question he's first ballot HOF. For the better part of his career he was no worse than the third best WR in the game and a convincing argument can be made that he was the best-better than Moss and Harrison. He put up monster numbers in spite of mostly mediocre QBs (after Steve Young) that he played with.

I wouldn't want him mentoring young WR on teamwork but he's an all time great.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

First ballot, IMO, No. Within 1-2 years afterwards, definitely. First ballot is a special honor, with no SBs and being a less than stellar teammate, I'd make him wait. No question he was a dominant WR in his era and deserves to be in the HoF.

Rice as unquestioned WR GOAT...definitely debateable. He played with not only two HoF QBs, but was caoched by one of the most innovative minds to ever walk the sideline. Here are some others that deserve to be in that conversation:

Charley Taylor
Randy Moss
and yes...Don Hutson.

[hooskins]

Freddy,

I am in the same boat as Matty. I think TO should be a shoe-in for the HOF, but the HOF is a full career consideration. TO is older now and not at the same level as maybe 2-4 years ago. That's why you take him for a year.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by hooskins

Freddy,

I am in the same boat as Matty. I think TO should be a shoe-in for the HOF, but the HOF is a full career consideration. TO is older now and not at the same level as maybe 2-4 years ago. That's why you take him for a year.

He may be totally done now. My question was "in his prime" would you take him, not now. I would hope we all at least agree that the skins shouldn't even talk to rosenhaus about him!

[NLC1054]

Last year I wanted him. I won't lie. Granted, I was a little less...knowledgable about things, I suppose. But yeah, I still wanted him. T.O, Moss, Armstrong and Cooley? You kidding me? Shhoooooot, if T.O were healthy I'd take that line-up now.

...This is why I will never and should never be a GM.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by NLC1054

Last year I wanted him. I won't lie. Granted, I was a little less...knowledgable about things, I suppose. But yeah, I still wanted him. T.O, Moss, Armstrong and Cooley? You kidding me? Shhoooooot, if T.O were healthy I'd take that line-up now.

...This is why I will never and should never be a GM.

If your trying to build a team the last thing you need is TO or say like a Hanyesworth, oh wait...

[JoeRedskin]

Coming to this one late.. but I agree w/ freddyg12's assessment. I get that off-the-field character issues (for example - Lawrence Taylor) are not considered. TO's character issues, however, affected his team's play on the field and had a negative effect on the long term stability of those teams and their ability to remain competitive.

TO blew up a competitive SF team by forcing a competent starter out of town and was, as I recall, accused fostering/creating a negative "me-first" attitude amongst the young receivers. In Philly, yes - they got to the SB with him BUT, after that, he again tosses his QB under the bus, gets suspended for insubordination, and creates a situation where he cannot remain as part of the team. Rinse, Recycle and repeat in Dallas. Teams find ways to keep guys who, in their prime, are going to be HOF'ers. In TO's case, teams looked for ways to get rid of him.

How many HOF'ers had to be cut to preserve the team? Maybe there are some, I can't think of any. Someone name me a player in the HOF that was as big a team cancer as TO - not someone who was a jackass or who was difficult - someone who forced teams to dump the player and reconstruct themselves as a team.

I am sorry, HOF'ers (certainly first ballot HOF'ers) do not create destructive team situations. TO did just that.