Skins Viks Postgame

[sandtrapjack]

The fade to Moss was by design. Everyone knew that on 4th down at the goal line that there was going to be double coverage on Garcon and Reed. Moss had one catch all game and they knew he would be the only one in man coverage.

[fanarchist]

Originally Posted by sandtrapjack

The fade to Moss was by design. Everyone knew that on 4th down at the goal line that there was going to be double coverage on Garcon and Reed. Moss had one catch all game and they knew he would be the only one in man coverage.

But there wasn't double coverage on Reed and Garcon on 4th down in that situation. In fact Reed was singled up with a LB, beat him immediately off the line, and was wide open in the middle of the endzone. If everyone knew it, everyone was wrong. That everyone including those who make the calls, and those who are paid to execute them. Moreover on the 3 previous plays the blitz was evident, every receiver was in single coverage, and the middle of the field was wide open every time. We tried to run one rub route on a slant to Garcon, but RG mistimed the pass and released the ball too early with no discernible pressure.

The offense and playcalling are as much to blame as the defense. And good teams score as many points as they need to win, and in most cases far exceed that.

This argument that some phantom number of points is enough to beat a particular team on a particular day therefore alleviating the offensive coaching staff of any accountability is a straw man fallacy.

[sandtrapjack]

Originally Posted by fanarchist

But there wasn't double coverage on Reed and Garcon on 4th down in that situation. In fact Reed was singled up with a LB, beat him immediately off the line, and was wide open in the middle of the endzone. If everyone knew it, everyone was wrong. That everyone including those who make the calls, and those who are paid to execute them. Moreover on the 3 previous plays the blitz was evident, every receiver was in single coverage, and the middle of the field was wide open every time. We tried to run one rub route on a slant to Garcon, but RG mistimed the pass and released the ball too early with no discernible pressure.

The offense and playcalling are as much to blame as the defense. And good teams score as many points as they need to win, and in most cases far exceed that. This argument that some phantom number of points is enough to beat a particular team is a straw man fallacy.

All points you made are correct. I guess my wording was confusing. In a short yardage 4th and goal, if the play call is a fade, the QB does not have time to read through his progressions. If you look at the play again, RG3 had his eyes on that back pylon the whole time and did not even look at anyone else but Moss. It's a 2 step drop then lob it at the pylon. If he goes through his progressions, a fade does not work. My point is, that the 'Skins coaching staff was anticipating double coverage on the 2 receivers that were killing the Vikes all night. But that did not happen.

During the time out the play called was fade to Moss. There was no secondary or check down receivers.

[Skins4L]

Originally Posted by sandtrapjack

All points you made are correct. I guess my wording was confusing. In a short yardage 4th and goal, if the play call is a fade, the QB does not have time to read through his progressions. If you look at the play again, RG3 had his eyes on that back pylon the whole time and did not even look at anyone else but Moss. It's a 2 step drop then lob it at the pylon. If he goes through his progressions, a fade does not work. My point is, that the 'Skins coaching staff was anticipating double coverage on the 2 receivers that were killing the Vikes all night. But that did not happen.

During the time out the play called was fade to Moss. There was no secondary or check down receivers.

thats theyre play weve hit on that route a few times to santana. he hung on if you didnt notice but it was good defense could have even been a pass interference. its a 3 step drop and boom what are you talking about? checkdown? our defense lost that. tony likes to turn it over in those situations. too much overanalysis of that last clutch play.

[fanarchist]

Originally Posted by sandtrapjack

All points you made are correct. I guess my wording was confusing. In a short yardage 4th and goal, if the play call is a fade, the QB does not have time to read through his progressions. If you look at the play again, RG3 had his eyes on that back pylon the whole time and did not even look at anyone else but Moss. It's a 2 step drop then lob it at the pylon. If he goes through his progressions, a fade does not work. My point is, that the 'Skins coaching staff was anticipating double coverage on the 2 receivers that were killing the Vikes all night. But that did not happen.

During the time out the play called was fade to Moss. There was no secondary or check down receivers.

I agree completely. It was a single read for Griff, and no other option. Which leads directly to the question why the shortsightedness of the play caller? Why only a single read? They anticipated strong pressure, a blitz perhaps, maybe 6 man pressure, because you'd assume most offensive lines(not saying ours necessarily) are expected to hold up against a single blitzer. If you make that assumption that leaves only one player capable of being double covered. So by design, they decide a half fade/corner route kind of pass to the smallest receiver on the field into the short side of the endzone is the highest percentage play in that position. It just doesn't jive. I understand people saying Tana has made that play in the past, but based on that specific situation it is not your highest percentage play. That I have to put on the coaches. Mainly Kyle's, (unless it's Mike who has redzone and 3rd down duties, I doubt it though) clutch situational playcalling ineptitude.

[Sonny9TD]

Originally Posted by fanarchist

I agree completely. It was a single read for Griff, and no other option. Which leads directly to the question why the shortsightedness of the play caller? Why only a single read? They anticipated strong pressure, a blitz perhaps, maybe 6 man pressure, because you'd assume most offensive lines(not saying ours necessarily) are expected to hold up against a single blitzer. If you make that assumption that leaves only one player capable of being double covered. So by design, they decide a half fade/corner route kind of pass to the smallest receiver on the field into the short side of the endzone is the highest percentage play in that position. It just doesn't jive. I understand people saying Tana has made that play in the past, but based on that specific situation it is not your highest percentage play. That I have to put on the coaches. Mainly Kyle's, (unless it's Mike who has redzone and 3rd down duties, I doubt it though) clutch situational playcalling ineptitude.

That corner route was to the short side of the field. If that play had been called with Santana lined up to the right with a lot of end zone pasture to work with and his speed that play might have worked, but since they were on the left hash mark already as soon as Santana turned left he only had a hop skip and a jump to get open. Hell a defensive lineman could have covered Moss in that short of distance. Maybe a good call but the wrong side of the field.

[punch it in]

This loss is on the defense for letting ponder pick them apart for most of the game and that Cassell conversion on third and forever is just ...well a complete fail.
That being said our offense put up three points in the second half. There has got to be some accountability there. We were basically moving the ball at will in the first half.
All this being said, the blame falls on Mike Shanahan. He is the head coach. He is responsible for everything. Personnell, the staff he assembled, the discipline (or lack there of) of this team, the gameplan, the motivation and desire of this team. I do not want to hear about what he inherited or the cap hit. Leslie Frazier inherited dog shit, and talent wise we are better than that crap ass 1-7 team. Leslie Frazier found a way to put his team in a position to win with two maligned backup qb's who would only be starting on one other team - the Jaguars. They were starting two rookie gaurds last nite that like the qb's probably would be backups at best anywhere else in the league. How the fuck did we not get to their qb's more is insane.
Minnesota called two timeouts at the end of the game lastnite or we do not even run those plays period.
We have several good young players, and capspace coming. In two years we will have our number one picks again. MS, KS, Haz, and of course the ST coach will not be here in 2015- they should not be here in 2014. RG-3 will win championships with this team, but not with the current regime. No way.

[skinsfaninok]

I think we are just expecting more out of a 3-6 team than they can produce. It sucks but when you have a franchise QB that means the team will be fine in the long run we just have to build around him and get a D. As I've said here so many times, Griffin is asked to do way more than guys like RW and Kaep. Luck is the only young QB that is asked to do just as much for his team and the Colts D is ten times better than ours.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

I think we are just expecting more out of a 3-6 team than they can produce. It sucks but when you have a franchise QB that means the team will be fine in the long run we just have to build around him and get a D. As I've said here so many times, Griffin is asked to do way more than guys like RW and Kaep. Luck is the only young QB that is asked to do just as much for his team and the Colts D is ten times better than ours.

Yeah but RG3 is also part of the reason we're 3-6. He has recently started to look like what we think he can be. I think part of that is the injury/no off season but it is what it is. I just hope he can continue to get better, it looks like he's turning the corner which is real good to see.

[skinsfaninok]

Ten Observations: Vikings 34, Redskins 27 - Washington Redskins Blog - ESPN

[Sonny9TD]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

Ten Observations: Vikings 34, Redskins 27 - Washington Redskins Blog - ESPN

Amen to that. The little things the Skins do wrong end up burning their azz. Why cant our DBs jam receivers at the line like the Vikings did Reed in the second half.THey don't and the receivers for other teams are wide open. Perry Riley couldn't keep up with his guy because receivers look like they are playing Canadian league football with a head start off the line it seems.

PLaying ten yards off the receiver means you just can't cover and need help against the long ball which opens up the short game. It would be nice to see our DBs play just 5 yards off the receiver because they can actually match up and cover someone which actually I think Hall can do pretty well. He is doing his job in my opinion and Amerson has the skills to do so as well. They should not be letting these receivers catch all these passes.

[calia]

In the first drive, we settled for 3 points after not being able to score from the 1. A stupid penalty in the 3rd quarter gives Min a 1st down on the 1. 4 points we didn't get, and 4 points we gave up with a personal foul penalty. And we lost by 7. That is the kind of season it has been folks.

[Sonny9TD]

The lack of discipline is on Shanahan. Personal foul penalties led to touchdowns pure and simple. But our defense is a joke. Any backup QB in the league can throw touchdowns on our defense. Josh Wilson Bacarri Rambo are a waste of money. Hall and Amerson I would keep but all the other DBs blow.No pass rush and only 2 DB worth keeping = joke of a pass coverage. I hope Phillip Thomas is a keeper and we draft another DB. Perhaps a pass rusher in free agency and another right guard are a must. Chester, Rambo, Meriweather, Wilson, Riley must go. So let it be written so let it be done.

[Gmanc711]

So much last night. Yeah I didn't love the last play, but I didn't hate it either. It had to be perfect, it was there, from what I understand it was his first read as well (meaning he wouldn't even have made the read to a wide open Reed since Moss was open). Didn't work, but that doesn't define the game to me either. The defense was horrible all night, against a terrible team. They don't make plays, the pass rush was a little better, but still nothing great.

The two biggest issues I have, are penalties and special teams. We take these STUPID personal fouls (I swear to god I think 20 seconds past from the play before Riley got his), DY with one on special teams, I mean whatever.

Bottom line, is this team is not very good top to bottom. The only reason we're still in it, is because the rest of the division is as bad as we are. The Cowboys I would estimate lose in New Orleans so we still wont "lose" any ground in the division, but there is nothing with this team that makes me think they're capable of what they did last year.

On one positive note, Alfred Morris and Pierre Garcon = MONSTERS. RG3 had a good night as well and as others have said, I think he has to/trys to do too much, but Garcon and Morris were great.

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by Gmanc711

So much last night. Yeah I didn't love the last play, but I didn't hate it either. It had to be perfect, it was there, from what I understand it was his first read as well (meaning he wouldn't even have made the read to a wide open Reed since Moss was open). Didn't work, but that doesn't define the game to me either. The defense was horrible all night, against a terrible team. They don't make plays, the pass rush was a little better, but still nothing great.

The two biggest issues I have, are penalties and special teams. We take these STUPID personal fouls (I swear to god I think 20 seconds past from the play before Riley got his), DY with one on special teams, I mean whatever.

Bottom line, is this team is not very good top to bottom. The only reason we're still in it, is because the rest of the division is as bad as we are. The Cowboys I would estimate lose in New Orleans so we still wont "lose" any ground in the division, but there is nothing with this team that makes me think they're capable of what they did last year.

On one positive note, Alfred Morris and Pierre Garcon = MONSTERS. RG3 had a good night as well and as others have said, I think he has to/trys to do too much, but Garcon and Morris were great.

And Jordan Reed that guy has the potential to be Antonio Gates like