Obama Care

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

If its anything more than 150 bucks a month then she would just get a priv health care coverage. if people could afford 200 a month on health care there wouldnt be people walking around without it.

150 bucks a month to cover a person for emergency visits and preganancies is absurd? your absurd.
i pay close to alil over 200 a month and i am covered for every freakin lil thing but i am fortunate to be an attorney with a good employer plan.

...

if 150 a mo for basic services is absurd, how much do you think people should pay for ins a mo under the new health care plan? the whole issue is lowering costs! it shouldnt cost thousands of dollars to take an MRI or 450 bucks for a med tech to take 3 mins in reding an MRI or xray.
and drs are racking up unneccesary treatments for people with health insurance to rack up the bills. see dr in balt city who was implanting 100s of unnecessary stents in peoples veins for money.

You include pregnancy as one of the basic services to be covered - you do realize that pregnancy is one of those really expensive services in part due to malpractice issues. What about truly major medical shock trauma issues - those helicopters ain't cheap? How much should it cost for "basic services"? Find an actuary, describe the services and the population that has to pay it and ask him. Otherwise your just blowing smoke. I mean, you do know how insurance works ... right??

I agree that costs are the issue. As for the specific costs you mention - again, where's your basis for assesing the accuracy. How much does the machine cost to purchase? to maintain? How much does it cost to train the techs? What's there salary? What are the liability issues? Seriously - does your firm do a cost analysis, market comparison in determining your hourly rate? Or do they do you just charge by the hour on what "feels" right?

On a larger scale - what is your plan for lowering medical costs? How do you intend to revamp the system. Sure the stent issue is obvious malpractice - now. A lot of these "unnecessary procedures", however, are litigation fodder when someone is injured and a test that might have alerted the doctor to a problem exists but was not used. So, just to be safe, test away. You can drive up costs for treatment (increased testing) or drive up doctor's (and therefor patient) costs for malpractice insurance (decreased testing). Take your pick.

As was discussed ad nauseum earlier in this thread - the health care system is broken and needs to be completely revamped. That is just not going to happen now - we got our "reform". Count me as one of those who thinks it is just pumping more money into a fractured system and is only a very short-term, expensive band-aid.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

If its anything more than 150 bucks a month then she would just get a priv health care coverage. if people could afford 200 a month on health care there wouldnt be people walking around without it.

150 bucks a month to cover a person for emergency visits and preganancies is absurd? your absurd.

i pay close to alil over 200 a month and i am covered for every freakin lil thing but i am fortunate to be an attorney with a good employer plan.

not all people work in corporate america, some people are bartenders, taxi drivers, etc and these people cant afford what priv ins companies ask for.

next time she hurts herself well just leave our wallet at the house and go to the hospital bleeding and not have any identification and get free but albeit slow service.

if 150 a mo for basic services is absurd, how much do you think people should pay for ins a mo under the new health care plan? the whole issue is lowering costs! it shouldnt cost thousands of dollars to take an MRI or 450 bucks for a med tech to take 3 mins in reding an MRI or xray.

and drs are racking up unneccesary treatments for people with health insurance to rack up the bills. see dr in balt city who was implanting 100s of unnecessary stents in peoples veins for money.

Most doctors are doing those extra test to avoid having an attorney sue them because the guy with a cough ended up keeling over because the doctor missed something. My buddy pays $109,000 for malpractice ins. and has never had a claim in his 25 yrs. I guess you missed the link I provided that shows rates for your 30 yr old girlfriend for under $200 a month. I'm guessing if she cannot afford a couple hundred a month for health coverage she must not have a cell phone, cable, or INTERNET access. Is that true?

[FRPLG]

over the mountain

What Joe said.^^

The problem to me with our system is not really lack of access. Nobody in this country should have a lack of access. The problem is cost cost cost cost cost. On one hand it COSTS way too much for anybody except the very rich to pay for out of pocket. On the other it is a very specialized industry that is never going to be "cheap". Does it cost too much? Yeah. Will it ever get cheap enough that $150 a month for insurance is reasonable? I very highly doubt it. Obamacare or whatever we want to call it didn't do much at all to really fix the fundamental problem of cost. Fixing malpractice won't either. There are other reasons it cost so much. Some of them can be fixed and some can't.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

over the mountain

What Joe said.^^

The problem to me with our system is not really lack of access. Nobody in this country should have a lack of access. The problem is cost cost cost cost cost. On one hand it COSTS way too much for anybody except the very rich to pay for out of pocket. On the other it is a very specialized industry that is never going to be "cheap". Does it cost too much? Yeah. Will it ever get cheap enough that $150 a month for insurance is reasonable? I very highly doubt it. Obamacare or whatever we want to call it didn't do much at all to really fix the fundamental problem of cost. Fixing malpractice won't either. There are other reasons it cost so much. Some of them can be fixed and some can't.

So you think my buddy who pays $109,000 for malpractice does not take that into his pricing when he does a surgury. I wonder how many he has to do just to pay that bill or how much is tacked on to each bill.

[JoeRedskin]

Of course he does, but FRPLG's point (I think) is that it is not malpractice issues alone that are the issue. I would go further that it's really impossible to fix malpractice issues without revamping the entire system.

[saden1]

It can be affordable it's just that our system is structured for profit. It's a system that encourages having the latest gizmos at the hospital instead of being patient care centric. As long as health care is an essential services that is monopolized in this county it will continue to cost more.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by saden1

It can be affordable it's just that our system is structured for profit. It's a system that encourages having the latest gizmos at the hospital instead of being patient care centric. As long as health care is an essential services that is monopolized in this county it will continue to cost more.

So your having a stroke do you want to go to the hospital with all the latest gizmo's or the one that has not up dated their equipment in 15 yrs so they can keep cost down?LOL

The only way to really save any money here on health care is to limit procedures and to have those death panels. Its the sad fact no one will talk about but we pump way to much money into keeping grand dad alive another month or so. Or treating an 85 yr old man for cancer who already is dying of heart conditions. At some point we need to pull the plug.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by firstdown

So your having a stroke do you want to go to the hospital with all the latest gizmo's or the one that has not up dated their equipment in 15 yrs so they can keep cost down?LOL

The only way to really save any money here on health care is to limit procedures and to have those death panels. Its the sad fact no one will talk about but we pump way to much money into keeping grand dad alive another month or so. Or treating an 85 yr old man for cancer who already is dying of heart conditions. At some point we need to pull the plug.

I want to be like those countries whose people live longer and their health care cost is a lot less than ours not some old break away USSR country. I hope that makes sense.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by firstdown

So your having a stroke do you want to go to the hospital with all the latest gizmo's or the one that has not up dated their equipment in 15 yrs so they can keep cost down?LOL

The only way to really save any money here on health care is to limit procedures and to have those death panels. Its the sad fact no one will talk about but we pump way to much money into keeping grand dad alive another month or so. Or treating an 85 yr old man for cancer who already is dying of heart conditions. At some point we need to pull the plug.

Sounds pretty simple when you say it, but the righteousness of it may prove somewhat more illusive....like abortion?

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by saden1

I want to be like those countries whose people live longer and their health care cost is a lot less than ours not some old break away USSR country. I hope that makes sense.

Our issue with how long people live is more of a life style choices then health care. We are the fattest country in the world by 6% over the next country. You can have all the best medical services in the world but they cannot save people from them self. That stat there alone increases our cost and causes people to die younger. Its not as simple as you make it sound.

Obesity statistics - countries compared - NationMaster

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by firstdown

I dated a girl making around $1500 back around 1995 and even though she had a degree she liked the job. She has sense moved on but I don't knock anyone who is working.

Not knocking at all. Just making an observation that in the virtuous effort to get everyone in this country to go to college and get a degree we have seriously devalued the college degree. Sort of like we screwed up the housing market by trying to get everyone to own a house.

[over the mountain]

At JHU right now there are doctors who read X rays. It takes about a min to read an x ray. The cost to each patient or their insurance co for the 1 min of service? over $100.

If this doctor reads 10 x rays in an hour, the hospital has billed well over $1,000 for 10 mins of work.

But yeah, lets **** the person who works and makes just enough to not be eligible for medicaid but doesnt make enough to afford priv health care.

There is a very real and large gap of this country's population that falls into this category. they are usually 20 somethings, struggling to pay off college loans, still on the low spectrum of the pay scale and cant afford to spend 200 bucks a month on health insurance. these are the good hard working people of the country.

they will eventually raise their status to a point were they can afford health care but for now and tomorrow, they have to hope they dont suffer a serious injury. if they do suffer a serious injury, they have a 12k debt that closes alil further their window of future financial stability.

They way some of you all talk and opine about things, makes me think you've been livin the good life too long and forgot what it was like to truly struggle to make ends meet. there is a segment of our population that is in a catch-22 right now. to broke to buy insurnace, but since you work a 9-5 you cant qualify for free health care.

The real poor get free everything.
The rich can afford everything.
The people who make 25-35k a year, get screwed until their broke or die trying to get rich.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

At JHU right now there are doctors who read X rays. It takes about a min to read an x ray. The cost to each patient or their insurance co for the 1 min of service? over $100.

If this doctor reads 10 x rays in an hour, the hospital has billed well over $1,000 for 10 mins of work.

But yeah, lets **** the person who works and makes just enough to not be eligible for medicaid but doesnt make enough to afford priv health care.

There is a very real and large gap of this country's population that falls into this category. they are usually 20 somethings, struggling to pay off college loans, still on the low spectrum of the pay scale and cant afford to spend 200 bucks a month on health insurance. these are the good hard working people of the country.

they will eventually raise their status to a point were they can afford health care but for now and tomorrow, they have to hope they dont suffer a serious injury. if they do suffer a serious injury, they have a 12k debt that closes alil further their window of future financial stability.

They way some of you all talk and opine about things, makes me think you've been livin the good life too long and forgot what it was like to truly struggle to make ends meet. there is a segment of our population that is in a catch-22 right now. to broke to buy insurnace, but since you work a 9-5 you cant qualify for free health care.

The real poor get free everything.
The rich can afford everything.
The people who make 25-35k a year, get screwed until their broke or die trying to get rich.

I haven't forgot. I was there and I had a pre-existing condition. I signed up during an HMO open enrollment and paid through the nose. Had to forego a lot of stuff (I ate Ramen noodles from about 25-30), but did what I had to do. So sorry - I hear you that it's tough. Made it through w/out requiring any (almost any) real insurance stuff but paid in the 150-200 range/mo in the 80's and early 90's. So please don't tell me I got no concept of the issue.

[mlmpetert]

-million-workers-lose-out-on-better-coverage: Personal Finance News from Yahoo! Finance

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

At JHU right now there are doctors who read X rays. It takes about a min to read an x ray. The cost to each patient or their insurance co for the 1 min of service? over $100.

If this doctor reads 10 x rays in an hour, the hospital has billed well over $1,000 for 10 mins of work.

But yeah, lets **** the person who works and makes just enough to not be eligible for medicaid but doesnt make enough to afford priv health care.

There is a very real and large gap of this country's population that falls into this category. they are usually 20 somethings, struggling to pay off college loans, still on the low spectrum of the pay scale and cant afford to spend 200 bucks a month on health insurance. these are the good hard working people of the country.

they will eventually raise their status to a point were they can afford health care but for now and tomorrow, they have to hope they dont suffer a serious injury. if they do suffer a serious injury, they have a 12k debt that closes alil further their window of future financial stability.

They way some of you all talk and opine about things, makes me think you've been livin the good life too long and forgot what it was like to truly struggle to make ends meet. there is a segment of our population that is in a catch-22 right now. to broke to buy insurnace, but since you work a 9-5 you cant qualify for free health care.

The real poor get free everything.
The rich can afford everything.
The people who make 25-35k a year, get screwed until their broke or die trying to get rich.

Sr. I worked for next to nothing as a single parent so I could get the training and skills to do what I'm doing today. Never once did I turn to the goverment for any handouts. I washed and iron my own shirts and we did bag lunches for 5 yrs. I know what its like so lets not play that card.

As for doctors. I have two friend that are doctors and it takes years of hard work before they make any money at all. Today both make silly money but they both work their asses off. I'd say they are the two hardest workong people I know. One of them has been working 7 day weeks for the past two years because he cannot find another partner he can trust his patients too.

I'd also say someone making 25-35 a year cab afford health care unless maybe they have a health issue. My daughter lives on her own works part time and is going to school and finds $125 a month for health ins. While I agree some cannot afford coverage I beliave many have their priorties mixed up. I bet many of the uninsured have cell phone, cable, internet, etc...