Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread

[metalskins]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

Kirk Cousins's ceiling right now appears to be Alex Smith. And the Chiefs were the most complete team to me in the playoffs.

What does that mean for you with Kirk Cousins leading the Redskins?

Actually, watching Alex Smith last night, I still feel Kirk Cousins is better than Smith. However, Smith has grown into being a solid game manager, but he still has a weak arm and a slow wind up when he throws the ball.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by metalskins

Actually, watching Alex Smith last night, I still feel Kirk Cousins is better than Smith. However, Smith has grown into being a solid game manager, but he still has a weak arm and a slow wind up when he throws the ball.

There's slight differences in strengths and weaknesses, but I think they're comparable. Biggest difference to me that makes Alex Smith better is being veteran savvy.

The most noticeable similarity that both share and that you describe Smith as, is they are great managers. And that's where their ceilings are.

[metalskins]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

There's slight differences in strengths and weaknesses, but I think they're comparable. Biggest difference to me that makes Alex Smith better is being veteran savvy.

The most noticeable similarity that both share and that you describe Smith as, is they are great managers. And that's where their ceilings are.

It took Alex Smith a long time to get that veteran savvy. Absolutely no reason to believe that Cousins won't have the same type of savvy as he matures in the NFL. That said, I don't see much of a comparison. I think Smith is a solid game manager, Cousins is a gunslinger and a potential playmaker.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

Kirk Cousins's ceiling right now appears to be Alex Smith. And the Chiefs were the most complete team to me in the playoffs.

What does that mean for you with Kirk Cousins leading the Redskins?

What the hell are you smoking? Kirk's ceiling is that of Alex Smith? Alex Smith has only eclipsed 20 TDs once in his career. Let that sink in. One time. As a former #1 overall pick. In Kirk's two years as a starter, he's bested any year that Smith has ever played in during his 12 years.

No man. They aren't even comparable, never the less claiming to be his ceiling. KC was fucking stupid to give Alex Smith that kind of money, and he's the kind of guy you can easily replace. Kirk on the other hand is not. Now granted, there is still a limit to what I would pay Kirk.

[warriorzpath]

... historically, you can't contend for a championship with a game manager unless you have a top defense with an elite impact defensive player.

[Schneed10]

The Smith / Cousins comparison makes no sense to me. One is extremely conservative and tends to throw the ball away or tuck it and run. The other will hang in the pocket patiently and throw deep down the field.

The better comparison for Cousins is Andy Dalton. That still gets you to the same place - decent QB but not transcendent.

The teams playing in the AFC and NFC championships tell you all you need to know about the importance of a top notch QB.

Part of me thinks tagging and trading Cousins wouldn't be the worst thing. But the other part of me thinks he can still keep getting better. There's no reason to think we've seen his ceiling yet.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

The Smith / Cousins comparison makes no sense to me. One is extremely conservative and tends to throw the ball away or tuck it and run. The other will hang in the pocket patiently and throw deep down the field.



The better comparison for Cousins is Andy Dalton. That still gets you to the same place - decent QB but not transcendent.



The teams playing in the AFC and NFC championships tell you all you need to know about the importance of a top notch QB.



Part of me thinks tagging and trading Cousins wouldn't be the worst thing. But the other part of me thinks he can still keep getting better. There's no reason to think we've seen his ceiling yet.

I wouldn't say that there's no reason. There's more there than not. He's had more than enough development time and actual game experience to show what he's got. He's still got time, but what his contract demands say- he's saying he's already there.

[sdskinsfan2001]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

The Smith / Cousins comparison makes no sense to me. One is extremely conservative and tends to throw the ball away or tuck it and run. The other will hang in the pocket patiently and throw deep down the field.

The better comparison for Cousins is Andy Dalton. That still gets you to the same place - decent QB but not transcendent.

The teams playing in the AFC and NFC championships tell you all you need to know about the importance of a top notch QB.

Part of me thinks tagging and trading Cousins wouldn't be the worst thing. But the other part of me thinks he can still keep getting better. There's no reason to think we've seen his ceiling yet.

Your last paragraph is the crux of the whole decision. Is he going to get better or is he at his ceiling? If he's at his ceiling he's about to be drastically over paid and if we gamble that he won't get better and get rid of him then we're up a creek. If we franchise him again we have to draft another QB this year, because we could be in same position next year and you aren't paying him 30+ million.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by sdskinsfan2001

Your last paragraph is the crux of the whole decision. Is he going to get better or is he at his ceiling? If he's at his ceiling he's about to be drastically over paid and if we gamble that he won't get better and get rid of him then we're up a creek. If we franchise him again we have to draft another QB this year, because we could be in same position next year and you aren't paying him 30+ million.

And of course the variable in the equation that we can't account for is what is his contract demand?

I think it's worth it to sign him to a contract that hitches our wagon to him for 2 or 3 years. He's shown enough to warrant a few more years of commitment to find out if he can keep growing.

But if his demands include so much guaranteed money that we'd be committing for 4+ years before we'd be able to escape with cap relief, or if he's asking to take up just too darn much of the cap, then I'm good with franchising him.

And through all of it, whether we franchise him or whether we sign him, I would not stop drafting QBs. I wouldn't reach, and I wouldn't necessarily spend a 1st rounder. But if I'm McCloughan and I think I've got a Russell Wilson with my 3rd rounder, then I'm jumping on it.

Kirk might get even better and become a top notch QB. But if he's not I want to have options sooner rather than later.

[sdskinsfan2001]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

And of course the variable in the equation that we can't account for is what is his contract demand?

I think it's worth it to sign him to a contract that hitches our wagon to him for 2 or 3 years. He's shown enough to warrant a few more years of commitment to find out if he can keep growing.

But if his demands include so much guaranteed money that we'd be committing for 4+ years before we'd be able to escape with cap relief, or if he's asking to take up just too darn much of the cap, then I'm good with franchising him.

And through all of it, whether we franchise him or whether we sign him, I would not stop drafting QBs. I wouldn't reach, and I wouldn't necessarily spend a 1st rounder. But if I'm McCloughan and I think I've got a Russell Wilson with my 3rd rounder, then I'm jumping on it.

Kirk might get even better and become a top notch QB. But if he's not I want to have options sooner rather than later.

Based on everything I've seen, it seems like 23 million is the floor of what he'll agree to. And if he has all the momentum people say he does he can probably get at least 4 years worth of guaranteed money. It's gonna be interesting how it all works out. No matter what happens there is gonna be some agreement and some disagreement here.

I was thinking mid round pick myself if he's franchised again. If he is franchised again, we have to keep McCoy, Sudfeld won't be on the team if a QB gets picked. I'm curious to know the Skins opinions about him after a year of coaching.

[MTK]

Kirk is no game manager

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by MTK

Kirk is no game manager

There's been at least one respected talent evaluator that called him that. So I think it's a valid opinion and discussion point.

Bucky Brooks:
Really, he (Cousins) is a "game manager" or "trailer" (quarterback carried by his team) on a league-wide scale.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

There's been at least one respected talent evaluator that called him that. So I think it's a valid opinion and discussion point.

Bucky Brooks:
Really, he (Cousins) is a "game manager" or "trailer" (quarterback carried by his team) on a league-wide scale.

K well I for one don't understand that, because I think of game managers as QBs who keep it conservative and avoid making mistakes because their goal is to play complementary football. Cousins chucks it downfield. His fatal flaw in Week 17 was forcing a ball into a spot he shouldn't have.

So basically Bucky Brooks can eat shit and die because he has no idea what he's talking about.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

K well I for one don't understand that, because I think of game managers as QBs who keep it conservative and avoid making mistakes because their goal is to play complementary football. Cousins chucks it downfield. His fatal flaw in Week 17 was forcing a ball into a spot he shouldn't have.



So basically Bucky Brooks can eat shit and die because he has no idea what he's talking about.

I understand your opinion, but let's not make this out to be a nonsensical point. Actually, Cooley also said that Cousins played scared against the Giants- to give you another person's perspective of that game, which is relevant in this discussion because of the importance of the game.

[Schneed10]

Yeah I'm definitely not saying Cousins should be immune to criticism; if you read my posts above you can see I'm caught somewhere between long term commitment if fair and trade him if you can get a good deal, like two first round picks.

I just take umbrage at the term game manager. That doesn't fit. He's a gunslinger. The question is can he become a gunslinger who comes through in the clutch as opposed to one that throws the big INT against the Giants in Week 17.

I definitely have questions about him, but I've seen enough to want to commit about three years to him.