It's not Brunell's fault!

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

What I'm saying is suppose Campbell comes out there and he's throwing the same passes, 3 step drop and screen. And we see that whoever is at QB we're still running the same offense, then who do we blame-Gibbs, Saunders, Campbell, the O-line? All I'm saying is we all assume that Campbell is going to come in and launch bombs all game long, but isn't it entirely possible that may not be the case?

i really doubt the Saunders playbook is 700 pages of dump offs. most pass plays have a reciever options in different parts of the field, not just behind the line of schrimmage.

yeah Brunell is trained to dump off on a blitz, but its become too much of reflex so defenses just gameplan that. if Brunell had the legs and reaction time to see who is open because of that blitz.....Ladell Betts wouldn't be our "go to guy"

[The Zimmermans]

forget throwing deep, brunell is too scared to throw for first downs, he takes so frickin long to drop back, that by the time he completes the screen, there are 2 linebackers sniffing it out. he's got no athleticism and horrible footwork right now. Saunders is not the problem and neither is GW. Lack of talent is the problem, especially on defense.

[RobH4413]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

What I'm saying is suppose Campbell comes out there and he's throwing the same passes, 3 step drop and screen. And we see that whoever is at QB we're still running the same offense, then who do we blame-Gibbs, Saunders, Campbell, the O-line? All I'm saying is we all assume that Campbell is going to come in and launch bombs all game long, but isn't it entirely possible that may not be the case?

It would be sweet if it was.

But yeah, I was thinking of that the other day. Campbell may be a great quarterback eventually, but one thing I can be almost certain of is that he is not the cureall.

We tend to assume a different QB is a cure-all here in DC and usually that isn't the case. We need a healthy O-line that is a bunch of headbusters to rally behind Campbell, give him time, and spread the ball out. At the very least, let JC execute our offense and judge whether or not he's the answer.

I'm glad I'm no head coach and that's not my job, cause that is hard to do.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by That Guy

if that's the case, then wtf is saunders here? if they're not asked to throw deep in the first place, than those coaches shouldn't be running the offense. It doesn't need to be 60's raiders, but show me something instead of dump offs 5 yards short on every other 3rd down.

I'd like to see some more agressive third down playcalling. But not downfield, just thrown at the marker on third and seven or third and eight. Chris Cooley. The dump off works a lot more than people credit it for, but we rely on it a bit to much on third down, I think. Chris Cooley.

I believe throwing down the field on third-and too-far-to-go-for-it-on-4th is highly counter productive. Chris Cooley.


Remember, Chris Cooley, our home run plays are the quick screen to Santana, and Portis off tackle. We really don't need a deep ball. If they are all in the box like people truely think they are, run a draw. Touchdown. Unless of course they have a safety back defending the deep ball that you all want to see so damn bad. Chris Cooley.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by RobH4413

It would be sweet if it was.

But yeah, I was thinking of that the other day. Campbell may be a great quarterback eventually, but one thing I can be almost certain of is that he is not the cureall.

We tend to assume a different QB is a cure-all here in DC and usually that isn't the case. We need a healthy O-line that is a bunch of headbusters to rally behind Campbell, give him time, and spread the ball out. At the very least, let JC execute our offense and judge whether or not he's the answer.

I'm glad I'm no head coach and that's not my job, cause that is hard to do.

The most popular player always seems to be the backup QB. Remember when the Bills went to four straight Super Bowls, my friends in Buffalo say that Frank Reich was more popular than Jim Kelly anyway. Gmanc, can you confirm?

I'm still torn on whether Campbell should be starting now. At the very least though, he should be the #2 guy. Another thing I'm curious about-if Campbell does get the starting nod will Brunell be bumped down to #2 or #3?

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

You get your guys hurt trying to win a losing battle. Moss has a hamstring injury, Randle El came up funny and we didn't even try hard to come back at the end.

win a losing battle is why we play the game GTripp. also, people RACK UP yards during "garbage time". defenses are set up to give short yards and prevent quick scores. Brunell dumped off to Betts for 8yds at a clip and took the whole clock in the process. 1 TD scored, Indy wins the game. mission accomplished.

in fact its even in the name of the defense PREVENT. even i learned that in my days at Sega Genesis State.

[That Guy]

you know, the shotgun worked a lot better for brunell... why did that disappear so completely? and where's the audibles that worked so well last year?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by illdefined

win a losing battle is why we play the game GTripp. also, people RACK UP yards during "garbage time". defenses are set up to give short yards and prevent quick scores. Brunell dumped off to Betts for 8yds at a clip and took the whole clock in the process. 1 TD scored, Indy wins the game. mission accomplished.

in fact its even in the name of the defense PREVENT. even i learned that in my days at Sega Genesis State.

I wasn't talking about low percentage chances, I love those kind of comebacks, it's what I live for. I'm talking about two minute warning, down by 3 tds stuff, where the only hope for victory is Brunell to Mossx3 + 2 successful onside kicks. That just isn't worth it.

I understand a prevent, probably more so than the average person seeing as how I was a garbage time QB in HS. But I think you missed by point about how trailing 3 TDs is a HUGE disadvantage before the game gets to prevent defense status. Undoubtably, Brunell took a major beating due to the score. Yet, he continued to move the ball, and accrue completions. I think our third down playcalling needs to be more conventional.

Sega Genesis rocks my world.

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I wasn't talking about low percentage chances, I love those kind of comebacks, it's what I live for. I'm talking about two minute warning, down by 3 tds stuff, where the only hope for victory is Brunell to Mossx3 + 2 successful onside kicks. That just isn't worth it.

I understand a prevent, probably more so than the average person seeing as how I was a garbage time QB in HS. But I think you missed by point about how trailing 3 TDs is a HUGE disadvantage before the game gets to prevent defense status. Undoubtably, Brunell took a major beating due to the score. Yet, he continued to move the ball, and accrue completions. I think our third down playcalling needs to be more conventional.

Sega Genesis rocks my world.

remember the Dallas game last year? the "turning point" of our season? with Moss as NFL player of the week? two improbable passes over the middle of the field and over the defense?

well Ladell Betts is a poor substitute. "garbage time" SHOULD mean two minutes, but lately it's been the entire second half.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by That Guy

you know, the shotgun worked a lot better for brunell... why did that disappear so completely? and where's the audibles that worked so well last year?

Like I said...bring back Bill Musgrave!!!

[MTK]

Aikman mentioned that perhaps the loss of Musgrave has hurt Brunell.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

But he did complete deep. Weren't you watching? And for your garbage time arguement, without it, he now has a ridiculously low TOP for the game, and consequently a low attempts number. I don't know if you think the Colts stopped trying or something, but I don't think garbage time should be discredited simply because the D is no longer blitzing anymore.

I enjoy your tell it like it is style, That Guy, but I'm afraid your garbage time arguement holds little water. The game is 60 minutes long, but realistically, we were dead in the water after 38. Brunell endured a few series in which he was fighting a losing battle simply because Freeney and Co. were pinning their ears back. He was playing much of the half without Portis and got killed. So I would argue that the garbage time actually should have HURT his stats overall. And with all that beating, poor pass blocking, and stiff defense, he still kept the ball out of the defenses hands and kept completeing passes.

Oh yeah, I would like to see your response to your last four sentences had someone else said them. You would probably tear them and their generalizations apart.

if we had more consistant production we'd have a higher TOP. and garbage time = prevent defense = the defense giving you the 5 and 6 yard plays. and that's more or less what we got. 1 TD after their D had completely let up, and it looked like the skins were barely even trying. and I wouldn't tear generalizations apart if they're true. we don't throw deep, not compared to other NFL teams, and we don't throw over the middle, and haven't for quite a while.

fighting a losing battle is meaningless. that whole part of your arguement is skewed, because in the prevent they weren't rushing nearly as much, and if he completed deep earlier, they'd back off the line and he wouldn't have to throw nearly every down. prevent defenses almost never hurt stats, since shallow completions are almost given away.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by illdefined

remember the Dallas game last year? the "turning point" of our season? with Moss as NFL player of the week? two improbable passes over the middle of the field and over the defense?

well Ladell Betts is a poor substitute. "garbage time" SHOULD mean two minutes, but lately it's been the entire second half.

Well, yeah. I was one of the people who thought we still had a chance on 4th and 15 down by 13 points. I thought it was about to slip away, but I'm an optimist, so I figured if we could only get a first, we'd still have a chance.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by That Guy

if we had more consistant production we'd have a higher TOP. and garbage time = prevent defense = the defense giving you the 5 and 6 yard plays. and that's more or less what we got. 1 TD after their D had completely let up, and it looked like the skins were barely even trying. and I wouldn't tear generalizations apart if they're true. we don't throw deep, not compared to other NFL teams, and we don't throw over the middle, and haven't for quite a while.

fighting a losing battle is meaningless. that whole part of your arguement is skewed, because in the prevent they weren't rushing nearly as much, and if he completed deep earlier, they'd back off the line and he wouldn't have to throw nearly every down. prevent defenses almost never hurt stats, since shallow completions are almost given away.

If you want to get techincal, add a qualifier to your generalization such as "we dont throw deep often", or "we dont throw deep as much as Indy does". Saying we don't do this, and we don't do that is incorrect. We do throw all over the field, but we tend to use the flats more often than most teams.

And teams DO back off the line already because they respect Santana's deep threat ability. You know this because we don't throw deep to him, and Saunders has a history of going deep in KC and STL.

[illdefined]

and here we are, without that crucial "turning point". right where we were last year before the Dallas game.

what made that game such a "turning point" was people learned to respect Moss and not just Portis. it made defenses stretch vertically. it opened up our entire offense, and gave the team hope it could always come close to winning. no longer.

everyone thought Patten wasn't a good number 2 reciever, but now its been revealed that number 2 barely gets looked at by Brunell, no matter who's playing.