Maske/JLC: Gibbs Hints Redskins Might Trade Up

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

I really liked Campbell when he & Auburn beat my Hokies in 05 & I thought he'd make a great nfl qb, so I was really happy w/the trade to get him. It was criticized, I remember listening to espn radio when the trade was leaked before the draft & Dan Patrick ripped us for the trade. But we knew that Joe wouldn't hurry him in & we would need a qb for the future. We've got one & that shouldn't be underestimated in the least as a lot of teams don't.

So I agree, let's not knock Joe until we know more about the front office decision making. I personally think Joe is starting to exert his influence on the team, after listening to the wrong people last year. Look for him to be more hands on this year & get back to coaching.

I'm not totally bashing the guy. I'm just trying to be objective. I said in my post that he has made some good moves, but also some pretty awful ones too. Only 1 of Gibbs 3 seasons back have been really productive, and that was only b/c in late '05 we finally decided to commit to the run and went on a late tear. Obviously the man is a great coach, but he has yet to prove he can build a winner personnel-wise. I hope like hell he succeeds. I feel like we are on the right track at this point.

[jrocx69]

Im all down for calvin johnson, you dont see a player of this magnitude for years at a time. along with moss.... this would open up so much for the running game as well help moss big time in the intermediate routes. its ridiculous that you guys cant see that... you want campbell to work out, but you need to feed him. and calvin johnson is a lock. 6'5 230 runs a 4.35(40) and has the hands better than any wr in the NFL now.

[calia]

I have a new draft strategy. Every year from now on, let's use all of our picks to secure the highest pick we can -- in the top 3. So we get 1 pick a year. Foregoing the rest of the draft, we can then buy the most expensive old veterans in the twilight of their careers. And let's have the roster turn over a lot, to try different combinations (the whole "team" thing is overrated).

Oh -- that isn't a new strategy, that's the existing strategy. My bad.

[artmonkforhallofamein07]

Alright GM I can agree with that, but didn't Gibbs have a really big part on buildiing the offensive side of the ball during the 80s. On Arch I'd say he was more of a Gregg W mistake than Gibbs. Also the jury is still out, for me anyway, on B. Lloyd. I think the guy can make plays, he needs to have a good training camp and season. If not than he is done in Washington.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by artmonkforhallofamein07

Alright GM I can agree with that, but didn't Gibbs have a really big part on buildiing the offensive side of the ball during the 80s. On Arch I'd say he was more of a Gregg W mistake than Gibbs. Also the jury is still out, for me anyway, on B. Lloyd. I think the guy can make plays, he needs to have a good training camp and season. If not than he is done in Washington.

Let's not just focus on AA and BLloyd. I was just throwing them out there as recent examples.
We also let Antonio Pierce walk- MLB was a big weak spot last season.
We let Ryan Clark walk- He and Taylor worked SO well together
We traded away a 2nd round pick to get Rocky who we apparently have no interest in starting
We let Walt Harris walk- he has been pro-bowl caliber for San Fran and our pass protection has fallen off a cliff
David Patten, well, injuries weren't Gibbs fault but it was still a signing that didn't pan out at all.

I know Gibbs has made his share of good moves too, but like I said, I still don't trust the man to build a team. But I think our patience this offseason is a good sign. Floyd Reese needs a job, we need a GM!

[DieHardSince76]

Just as I was trying to get my mind around the Briggs trade, Gibbs comes out with this one! I know that Calvin Johnson is a terrific WR, but we don't need him unless we can find someone to fob Brandon Lloyd off on. This idea of trading up makes NO SENSE AT ALL!

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by RobH4413

Paragraph indentations are a wonderful thing my friend. I suggest you look into them.

As far as G-Tripps first long post goes... I really tend to agree with a lot of what you're saying. Granted, your making several assumptions... (That guy pointed to the colts as a retort)... But I think in this style of offense your thinking is on the right track.


Essentially here is what I understood what you were basically saying: In any run based offense where you don't have an MVP at QB, maxamizing your options won't necessarily maximize your success, especially when it comes from neglecting greater needs.

That's essentially what I was saying.

Obviously having Calvin Johnson start across from Moss is better than having Randle El. If Moss and Cooley still get their touches, then our passing game potential should improve, albeit slightly.

What I am worried about (and this is one of the assumptions I made) is that if we were to invest SO MUCH in a guy like Calvin Johnson, how can we expect our coaching staff to still use Cooley and Moss properly? I mean, espicially in our case where the coaching staff makes personel decisions, would we honestly be able to resist the urge to call plays where CJ is the main receiver all the time? Yes, I'm making an assumption about behavior, and anybody that has argued with me knows I would have jumped all over them for making such an assumption--so im being hypocritical in a way, but I feel this is a rare, reasonable assumption. How would our front office justify a move up in the draft plus a neglection of obvious needs and then NOT use Calvin Johnson more than he should be, even at the expense of Cooley and Moss? This is why such a move would be an unmitigated disaster. In essence we would be making three costly mistakes in one:

1) Continuing to piss away draft picks
2) Neglecting obvious defensive needs
3) Potentially decreasing offensive potential depending on how disciplined Al Saunders' playcalling is

This is an example of how the cost of acquisition can compromise decision-making on the field. In today's highly competitive league, that's not something a coach can afford.

Bottom line: trading up for Calvin Johnson would be an unmitigated disaster on so many levels. We would be far better off making the Briggs deal than this.

[NicknacK89]

i say we trade everyone we have for peyton manning

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by NicknacK89

i say we trade everyone we have for peyton manning

or we could trade every first round pick we have for the next 15 years for ladanian tomlinson

[SkinsFanSince91]

We can debate allwe want, but if we have the chance to take CJ we should.

Players like him don't come around often!

Having CJ, Moss, and Randle El will open up running lanes off of respect of the receiving corps.

We can get a space-eating-run-stopping DT or a pss rush specialist in the 3rd round.

Our offense would INSTANTLY be better, and for a chance we could OUTSCORE teams, while keeping our defense fresh.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SkinsFanSince91

We can debate allwe want, but if we have the chance to take CJ we should.

Players like him don't come around often!

Having CJ, Moss, and Randle El will open up running lanes off of respect of the receiving corps.

We can get a space-eating-run-stopping DT or a pss rush specialist in the 3rd round.

Our offense would INSTANTLY be better, and for a chance we could OUTSCORE teams, while keeping our defense fresh.

Only once a year.

Respect, eh? Seems similar to the logic that said defenses would respect Campbell's deep ball, and then we watched our Y/A get sliced significantly. Defenses don't respect young players simply because the rest of us do.

One, a trade up that also lands a third rounder would cost Betts, and thats a bad deal for us. Two, if the third rounder ever becomes more than adequate, it was purely a function of luck. Plus, we lose a lot of game time experimenting with that 3rd round pick to see if we have anything. That's just not the solution we need.

Our offense would not instantly be better. Our passing game goes as Campbell goes. Our rushing game would be worse off if we dealt Betts. CJ would be a miniscule part of the equation, not to mention a rookie. Rookies lack the experience to play anywhere near what they will one day be capable of, and certainly make their fair share of crucial mistakes.

The best way to keep the defense fresh is to grind out first downs with the running game. You are suggesting we trade Betts. That's some backwards logic.

[holmester]

April 28th is gonna be like the best day ever. I can't wait for the speculators of speculation to having nothing to speculate about. I wish I could go to sleep tonight, wake up, and hear Roger Goodell say " With the first overall pick the Oakland Raiders select . . . . Sam Hollenbach?!?"

[tazhog]

For the life of me... I can't see the Redskins trading up... just my opinion!