There's No Quarterback Controversy

[charlielyons]

Originally Posted by hooskins

how about Ramsey, a white QB who got a ton of time here even though he sucked. Seriously dont give me this bull, there are soo many white QBs who get 2nd chances. It's really case by case, but I doubt I can convince you that if you would even mention something like this..

First of all, i am black....second ramsey the same guy who got taken out after 1 game by gibbs. The media loves to mention race in any form they can. racism is created by the media....the blow it out of the water....minority coaches, quarterbacks......all im saying is you will not here alot of media screaming to take out campbell(they try to remain as PC as possible)

[RobH4413]

Originally Posted by charlielyons

First of all, i am black....second ramsey the same guy who got taken out after 1 game by gibbs. The media loves to mention race in any form they can. racism is created by the media....the blow it out of the water....minority coaches, quarterbacks......all im saying is you will not here alot of media screaming to take out campbell(they try to remain as PC as possible)

So being black is an excuse for horribly ignorant comments? I don't see your point.

Are you saying if Ramsey was black, Gibbs would have kept him in the game? I'm not even going to tell you why the media hasn't called for Campbell's head, because it's in plain sight all over this website.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by charlielyons

First of all, i am black....second ramsey the same guy who got taken out after 1 game by gibbs. The media loves to mention race in any form they can. racism is created by the media....the blow it out of the water....minority coaches, quarterbacks......all im saying is you will not here alot of media screaming to take out campbell(they try to remain as PC as possible)

That is one of the weakest arguments I've ever heard. No one gives a sh*t about his skin color.

Have you seen the way Donovan McNabb gets treated?? Philly media and fans call for his head after every underthrown pass. Then the ESPN's of the world take the local stuff and give it national attention. "Will McNabb be traded? Is he done in Philly" has been said at least once a year for the past few seasons. He's been that team's #1 scapegoat since he was booed on draft day.

That example alone craps all over the race argument.

[A10sROCK]

Originally Posted by hooskins

how about Ramsey, a white QB who got a ton of time here even though he sucked. Seriously dont give me this bull, there are soo many white QBs who get 2nd chances. It's really case by case, but I doubt I can convince you that if you would even mention something like this..

Ramsey got 27 games.

Jason is on game #33 or so. However, Jason has shown more potential than Ramsey ever did. That's why the team will continue him as the starting QB throughout this season. By next season though the calls for other QBs to start will increase.

[MTK]

It's got nothing to do with skin color. This is just getting ridiculous.

[maroonandblack30]

Ramsey got hosed by Gibbs. He looked promising in 03 and 04. Gibbs wanted to play his boyfriend Brunnel. Ramsey never got a fair chance.

This is only JC's 2nd full season, first with Zorn. Unless he starts regressing I don't think sticking with him for another 2 seasons before you make a judgement is absurd.

Look at M. Hasseback, Eli...both took time to develope.

[A10sROCK]

Originally Posted by maroonandblack30

Ramsey got hosed by Gibbs. He looked promising in 03 and 04. Gibbs wanted to play his boyfriend Brunnel. Ramsey never got a fair chance.

This is only JC's 2nd full season, first with Zorn. Unless he starts regressing I don't think sticking with him for another 2 seasons before you make a judgement is absurd.

Look at M. Hasseback, Eli...both took time to develope.

Not to go off-topic, but my only question regarding Ramsey is this:

if he was so good and was unfairly dumped by a HOF coach then why didn't he succeed when he went to other teams?

Campbell's QB rating HAS been dropping this second half of the season - just like it did last year. He has been let down by his WR, OL, etc. He's got this season; after that his position as starter will be more tenuous.

[charlielyons]

I wish everyone would stop picking out a point here and a point here out of my arguement.....i will sum it up again......campbell is going to be a good QB, wrong system and wrong mechanics will hold him up here.........the skin color thing was in refrence to the media(they will be more PC)in attacking a black quarterback.....Washington fans as a whole are very critical of their QBs, always have, always will...How many years do we have to wait on this guy to learn to read defenses,improve his mechanics,stop fumbling...its just insane in my opinion he is getting this much patience.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by charlielyons

I wish everyone would stop picking out a point here and a point here out of my arguement.....i will sum it up again......campbell is going to be a good QB, wrong system and wrong mechanics will hold him up here.........the skin color thing was in refrence to the media(they will be more PC)in attacking a black quarterback.....Washington fans as a whole are very critical of their QBs, always have, always will...How many years do we have to wait on this guy to learn to read defenses,improve his mechanics,stop fumbling...its just insane in my opinion he is getting this much patience.

He is repeatedly thrown into new systems for one. Also, he has improved as a professional- in TD-INT ratio, efficiency, comp %, and leadership. It's not his fault our pass pro has been pretty poor, especially recently (and his passer rating has fallen a bit as direct correlation), nor is it his fault our WRs haven't been able to get open and are dropping a ridiculous amount of passes. Most experts and former West Coast offense QBs say it takes up to 3 years to master the system. He's done pretty damn well for his first season.

Washington fans have been overly critical of our QBs, especially lately, because frankly they have sucked for the most part. When is the last time we've drafted a QB in the first round who was seen as a "total package" type of player? That's what JC is, and we're bringing him along as such.

To say that benching him a) would improve our chances or b) isn't being more widely suggested because of race is just dumb IMO.

You think Todd Collins could run out and block on WR reverse? Or run for 10-15 yards straight up field? Or evade pressure when our mediocre O-line lets the pocket collapse too early?

[charlielyons]

Originally Posted by GMScud

He is repeatedly thrown into new systems for one. Also, he's getting better. It's not his fault our pass pro has been pretty poor, especially recently (and his passer rating has fallen a bit as direct correlation), nor is it his fault our WRs haven't been able to get open and are dropping a ridiculous amount of passes. Most experts and former West Coast offense QBs say it takes up to 3 years to master the system. He's done pretty damn well for his first season.

Washington fans have been overly critical of our QBs, especially lately, because frankly they have sucked for the most part. When is the last time we've drafted a QB in the first round who was seen as a "total package" type of player?

To say that benching him a) would improve our chances or b) isn't being more widely suggested because of race is just dumb IMO.

You think Todd Collins could run out and block on WR reverse? Or run for 10-15 yards straight up field? Or evade pressure when our mediocre O-line lets the pocket collapse too early?

and i never said bench the guy....i said when we are out of the playoff hunt lets see what we have....thats all

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by charlielyons

and i never said bench the guy....i said when we are out of the playoff hunt lets see what we have....thats all

If we're out of the playoff hunt come season's end, there will be plenty of blame to spread around. Again, if we protect better and the WRs get open and start hanging on to good throws...

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by charlielyons

I wish everyone would stop picking out a point here and a point here out of my arguement.....i will sum it up again......campbell is going to be a good QB, wrong system and wrong mechanics will hold him up here.........the skin color thing was in refrence to the media(they will be more PC)in attacking a black quarterback.....Washington fans as a whole are very critical of their QBs, always have, always will...How many years do we have to wait on this guy to learn to read defenses,improve his mechanics,stop fumbling...its just insane in my opinion he is getting this much patience.

i think alot of people would agreee that there is an honest debate to be had about whether JC will ever be more than good and how much patience we must show in order to decide if he can be great.

i think a good amount of people share your view that JC so far has problems readings Ds and that his long wind up delivery is a problem.

i think the media not being as critical of black quarterbacks b/c of PC reasons is a subjective personal opinion people can reasonably disagree on. I respect your view and wont call you stupid or say you dont know a thing about football becasue of it. I might have agreed with you in the early 90's but guys like warren moon and randall cunningham (2 great qbs no matter the color of the arm throwing the ball) have set it up now so that, black or white, you screw up your getting cursed equally.

I do not agree that we have given campbell enough or too much time to see what his true potential is. I am not one of those "hes been in 10 diff system" excuse guys, but let him play out his contract and lets see what we want to do. To this point another poster said something i hadnt thought of: "how smart is it to wait until JC's 5 year contract is up only to decide he is not our guy." to another degree, if we do wait till after next year and decide he is not our guy, what will our qb options be. (colt? please no)

i dont think our handling of JC has been insane, i like how weve played it so far. didnt thrust him in the 1st year, allowed him to get his feet wet, and now we get this year and next to evaluate the hell out of the guy.

go skins!!

ps - long story short; i wont call you stupid because you believe something i dont. especially when it is a subjective person by person issue. alot more poeple calling others stupid nowadays on here.

[A10sROCK]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

i think alot of people would agreee that there is an honest debate to be had about whether JC will ever be more than good and how much patience we must show in order to decide if he can be great.

i think a good amount of people share your view that JC so far has problems readings Ds and that his long wind up delivery is a problem.

i think the media not being as critical of black quarterbacks b/c of PC reasons is a subjective personal opinion people can reasonably disagree on. I respect your view and wont call you stupid or say you dont know a thing about football becasue of it. I might have agreed with you in the early 90's but guys like warren moon and randall cunningham (2 great qbs no matter the color of the arm throwing the ball) have set it up now so that, black or white, you screw up your getting cursed equally.

I do not agree that we have given campbell enough or too much time to see what his true potential is. I am not one of those "hes been in 10 diff system" excuse guys, but let him play out his contract and lets see what we want to do. To this point another poster said something i hadnt thought of: "how smart is it to wait until JC's 5 year contract is up only to decide he is not our guy." to another degree, if we do wait till after next year and decide he is not our guy, what will our qb options be. (colt? please no)

i dont think our handling of JC has been insane, i like how weve played it so far. didnt thrust him in the 1st year, allowed him to get his feet wet, and now we get this year and next to evaluate the hell out of the guy.

go skins!!

ps - long story short; i wont call you stupid because you believe something i dont. especially when it is a subjective person by person issue. alot more poeple calling others stupid nowadays on here.

Excellent post. My only disagreement is about letting him start as the QB throughout his contract. If we get to the end of next season and he's NOT the one (i.e., we let him go) then we have:

No clue if Colt can play at the NFL level
No clue who our next QB will be

No one gets 53 games to prove themselves as a starter in the NFL. Not when you're playing average football at the most critical position on the team. If Eli had not finished out last year very strongly [same point Jason is at now] he'd have had strong competition this season and been replaced.

Problem is that Jason has flashes of brilliance but sinks down as the season progresses.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by charlielyons

I wish everyone would stop picking out a point here and a point here out of my arguement.....i will sum it up again......campbell is going to be a good QB, wrong system and wrong mechanics will hold him up here.........the skin color thing was in refrence to the media(they will be more PC)in attacking a black quarterback.....Washington fans as a whole are very critical of their QBs, always have, always will...How many years do we have to wait on this guy to learn to read defenses,improve his mechanics,stop fumbling...its just insane in my opinion he is getting this much patience.

His completion % is up, his INTs and fumbles are WAY down, and his passer rating is up.

But yeah let's just ignore that.

[charlielyons]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

His completion % is up, his INTs and fumbles are WAY down, and his passer rating is up.

But yeah let's just ignore that.

nobody is denying he has gotten better, but he seems like he is flatlining....all the talk about he changes systems every year but no one has mentioned in that time.....he has the same o-line,the same WR,the same TE and same set of running backs........a little more consistency is not asking to much from a guy who has played with the same group for 3 years.......an 8 yard slant is the same no matter what scheme you run