Stop the Madness, T.O. should be a skin (but he's not, he's a Bengal)

[skinster]

Our receiving core is a joke. Thomas and Kelly were given their chances and failed miserably. I might be wrong, but I cant think of one WR who was given that many starts, played that many games as either Thomas/Kelly, put up those terrible numbers, and then did good the next year. Plus Moss will be even worse without being able to take steroids to fix his knees (we all know it's true). I really don't see much upside (besides Cooley/Davis, but I do know for a fact that there have never been two TE's ever to both put up big numbers on the same team at the same time). Ideally I wouldn't want TO in his old age, but in our dire situation, I wouldn't be opposed to bringing him in, plus he did pretty well with Donovan his first time around, its worth a shot.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by skinster

Our receiving core is a joke. Thomas and Kelly were given their chances and failed miserably. I might be wrong, but I cant think of one WR who was given that many starts, played that many games as either Thomas/Kelly, put up those terrible numbers, and then did good the next year. Plus Moss will be even worse without being able to take steroids to fix his knees (we all know it's true). I really don't see much upside (besides Cooley/Davis, but I do know for a fact that there have never been two TE's ever to both put up big numbers on the same team at the same time). Ideally I wouldn't want TO in his old age, but in our dire situation, I wouldn't be opposed to bringing him in, plus he did pretty well with Donovan his first time around, its worth a shot.

What do you think of Vincent Jackson?

[MTK]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

What do you think of Vincent Jackson?

and here's the setup

[skinster]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

What do you think of Vincent Jackson?

The jury is still out on Vincent Jackson. He has shown that he can play at a very high level and is capable of being a number one receiver, but he had a very good quarterback and has not shown that he can do it year in and year out. I feel like there is potential with him, but it would be risky to try and trade for him because I feel like he still has many question marks about HOW good he really is, and he would come with a very high price tag considering it is AJ smith we are dealing with. I personally would not want to take that risk on trading for him, but I do not think it would be the worst move in the world if we did (unless we give up wayyyy too much to get him).

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by skinster

The jury is still out on Vincent Jackson. He has shown that he can play at a very high level and is capable of being a number one receiver, but he had a very good quarterback and has not shown that he can do it year in and year out. I feel like there is potential with him, but it would be risky to try and trade for him because I feel like he still has many question marks about HOW good he really is, and he would come with a very high price tag considering it is AJ smith we are dealing with. I personally would not want to take that risk on trading for him, but I do not think it would be the worst move in the world if we did (unless we give up wayyyy too much to get him).

Do you consider VJ a failure? Would you compare Devin Thomas to Vincent Jackson?

[skinster]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Do you consider VJ a failure? Would you compare Devin Thomas to Vincent Jackson?

Ahh I see what you were saying earlier. Good set up. Valid point, I did say I wasn't sure if it was true or not, but even so I would actually still argue that VJ did significantly better (not way better, but significant enough for there to be a difference). You may disagree with me but I see a significant difference from VJ's 450yd 6td year to DT's 320yd 3td year. Especially considering that two of DT's 3TD's and a third of his yards came from one game (some may see that as potential, I see it as a fluke where he was playing against a severely injured secondary...). I see your point, they are sort of similar numbers, but not similar enough in my mind. (Plus, VJ didn't exactly break out the next year after starting all 16 games and having 620 yds for 3 tds). I hope I am wrong, but I have not seen DT produce at a level that shows he can get it done in the future. Can he get better? of course, who can't? But he has not shown any signs so far of him being able to be relied on in any way shape or form. He will without a doubt not break out this next year (nobody gets that good that quick), but my hope is that he at least shows potential next year to break out the following year...but that is also doubtful considering the little amount that he has shown so far after being given every opportunity to perform. I would like nothing more than to be wrong here, but I think it is more realistic to think its more likely than not that he will not be someone to be relied on in the future.

[NYCskinfan82]

^^ I know were your going. It pays to read some of the post on this site your might learn a thing or two.

[artmonkforhallofamein07]

I would not say he has been given every opportunity so far Skinster.

My List of Unopportunities:

1. JC didn't give him every opportunity.

2. The Offensive line didn't give him every opportunity.

3. The Lack of a running game didn't give him every opportunity

4. And last but certainly not least of my Unoppertunities List is Jim Zorn's Offense, WR Routes, and his lack of gameplaning.


I say it is fair to say that he could have a break out year this year with improvements made to all four of those areas.

[MTK]

Plenty of WRs don't do much until year 3 and even year 4. In fact it probably happens more often than not.

[SkinzWin]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Plenty of WRs don't do much until year 3 and even year 4. In fact it probably happens more often than not.

Especially if they go from a QB with a problem with throwing it long and issues with holding on to it too much, to a pro bowl QB that can make things happen with unproven WR's in the past. I can't help but feel like they are going to take a big step forward with the Shanny scheme and McNabb.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Plenty of WRs don't do much until year 3 and even year 4. In fact it probably happens more often than not.

Almost never though if they are getting consistent playing time. 32 NFL games is an eternity, so if a player is active for 30+ games and doesn't have a track record of success, you're probably doing something wrong with development (or wasting time on a bad player). I mean, look at Fred Davis. Are there holes in his game? Sure. Was he a disaster as a rookie? As a pass-receiver, yes. Did he look completely lost when he started getting starts at TE? No, he looked like he knew what he was doing.

With Randle El gone, playing time opportunities should be a lot more plentiful for both Thomas and Kelly, which should be all the opportunity they need to develop into the best players they can be.

[Chico23231]

Im tired of hearing excuses for Thomas and Kelly. You need to wait 3 or 4 years, or playing time, bad oline, etc...Last year everybody was saying we needed these guys to step up, going so far with lofty expectations with predicitions on receptions and yards...these guys have been major disappointments period. Actually the WR position as a whole has been a disappointment for years. TO is absolutely not the answer...trading crazy mulitiple high draft pics for pouty, DUI junkie, wants-to-get-paid WR is not the answer either. There is no other answer but for one of these 2 guys to do something and live up to expectations...or cut them both

[SmootSmack]

Terrell to the Rams?

Sources: St. Louis Rams very interested in signing Terrell Owens - ESPN

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Terrell to the Rams?

Sources: St. Louis Rams very interested in signing Terrell Owens - ESPN

But.... is T.O. interested in the Rams? the Rams have been one of the teams reported as possibly needing him but I keep hearing that T.O. would not go there cause he wants to go to a team that has a chance to win it all either next yr or in the near future cause he's seeking a ring. Many have written the Rams off due to this but if they are the only team sniffing in his direction I can see him taking the bait.

[sandtrapjack]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Terrell to the Rams?

Sources: St. Louis Rams very interested in signing Terrell Owens - ESPN

I heard this and thought, WOW, is this REALLY the VET WR they want chewing on Bradfords rookie ear in the huddle?