V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"

[saden1]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

^ are u kidding? Jackson is a top 5 WR. Do you watch football?

Are you serious? I can't tell whether you purposely say silly things or really are silly.

1. Randy Moss
2. Andre Johnson
3. Larry Fitzgerald
4. Chad Johnson
5. Regie Wayne


Hell, I'm not even sure he's better than DeSean Jackson, Hines Ward, Steve Smith or Brandon Marshall. Top 5 my ass.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by saden1

Are you serious? I can't tell whether you purposely say silly things or really are silly.

1. Randy Moss
2. Andre Johnson
3. Larry Fitzgerald
4. Chad Johnson
5. Regie Wayne


Hell, I'm not even sure he's better than DeSean Jackson, Hines Ward, Steve Smith or Brandon Marshall. Top 5 my ass.

Eh, Chad Johnson shouldn't be on that list. Miles Austin, Sidney Rice when healthy, and Roddy White are all better then Ocho (and VJax) at this point.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by saden1

Are you serious? I can't tell whether you purposely say silly things or really are silly.

1. Randy Moss
2. Andre Johnson
3. Larry Fitzgerald
4. Chad Johnson
5. Regie Wayne


Hell, I'm not even sure he's better than DeSean Jackson, Hines Ward, Steve Smith or Brandon Marshall. Top 5 my ass.

You really think Ocho is better than Jackson? Good player and all, master of running a lot of intermediate routes. Simply can't make plays like Jackson does either after the catch or downfield. I get the whole two years argument, but Ochocinco was last a 90 catch, 1,400 yard guy in 2007 (age 29). Don't know how he could be on anyone's top five list anymore based on that.

You could substitute Smith, who is still pretty dominant out there even though he's seeing his workload decreased. But if you're top five list is Moss, Johnson, Fitzgerald, Smith, and Wayne: players like Roddy White and Vincent Jackson are right there to take over as Moss/Smith/Wayne decline.

Even if Jackson is not quite top five, it seems foolish to suggest he's not going to be there soon, especially when that list is populated by 30+ year olds.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

You really think Ocho is better than Jackson? Good player and all, master of running a lot of intermediate routes. Simply can't make plays like Jackson does either after the catch or downfield. I get the whole two years argument, but Ochocinco was last a 90 catch, 1,400 yard guy in 2007 (age 29). Don't know how he could be on anyone's top five list anymore based on that.

You could substitute Smith, who is still pretty dominant out there even though he's seeing his workload decreased. But if you're top five list is Moss, Johnson, Fitzgerald, Smith, and Wayne: players like Roddy White and Vincent Jackson are right there to take over as Moss/Smith/Wayne decline.

Even if Jackson is not quite top five, it seems foolish to suggest he's not going to be there soon, especially when that list is populated by 30+ year olds.

Jackson is 28 next January....he ain't no spring chicken and he's certainly not worth the kind of money he's asking for. When these players take over I'll be happy to reevaluate my position.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by saden1

Jackson is 28 next January....he ain't no spring chicken and he's certainly not worth the kind of money he's asking for. When these players take over I'll be happy to reevaluate my position.

No, he's not young-young, but he's also in the same class as, without the same dropoff risk of, guys like Moss and Steve Smith.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by saden1

Jackson is 28 next January....he ain't no spring chicken and he's certainly not worth the kind of money he's asking for. When these players take over I'll be happy to reevaluate my position.

Just an FYI, Jackson will be 27 all season, and that's the exact year Marvin Harrison broke out, and was extremely productive for 8 more years after that. WR isn't like RB...there is no wall at 30. I'd say the wall for wr's is 34 or 35.
The man is 6'5" 241lbs, and can run pretty darn fast. He's a freak, and on a team like the Skins, 1300+ yards would be extremely likely given we now have a QB to throw to him. DB's just can't match up with him.

[skinsfaninok]

^ ocho cinco isn't better than VJ at this point in his career. Jackson is widely regarded as a top 5 WR. Look at his numbers over the past 2 seasons. Andre Johnson, Fitz , Moss , And Marshall I agree with. Then VJ is right behind them

[skinsfaninok]

Hines Ward? Cmon dude seriously?

[skinsfaninok]

^ Austin and Rice have had one good season. VJ has been really good for 2-3 years now.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

^ Austin and Rice have had one good season. VJ has been really good for 2-3 years now.

Yeah, but the thing is Austin and Rice passed the 1,300 yard mark. Once a player makes it to that point you know theres something else besides QB play at work. Only player I can think of that struggled after getting 1,300 yards was Javon Walker and that was thanks to injury.

1. Andre Johnson
2. Larry Fitzgerald
3. Randy Moss
4. Calvin Johnson (984 yards in 14 games last year with a rookie QB, 1,300 yards the year before)
5a. Wes Welker (More yards then Moss but 9 fewer TD's)
5b. Roddy White (Got 1,200 yards with one of the worst QB groups in the league in 2007)
7. Reggie Wayne
8. Anquan Boldin
9. Brandon Marshall
10. Miles Austin

On top of that VJax isn't even the best receiver on his own team. I'm all for bringing him in at a discount but AJ Smith is all so stubborn.

[jsarno]

[quote=Dirtbag359;728771]Yeah, but the thing is Austin and Rice passed the 1,300 yard mark. Once a player makes it to that point you know theres something else besides QB play at work. Only player I can think of that struggled after getting 1,300 yards was Javon Walker and that was thanks to injury.

1. Andre Johnson
2. Larry Fitzgerald
3. Randy Moss
4. Calvin Johnson (984 yards in 14 games last year with a rookie QB, 1,300 yards the year before)
5a. Wes Welker (More yards then Moss but 9 fewer TD's)
5b. Roddy White (Got 1,200 yards with one of the worst QB groups in the league in 2007)
7. Boldin
8. Marshall
9. Austin
10. Rice

On top of that VJax isn't even the best receiver on his own team. I'm all for bringing him in at a discount but AJ Smith is all so stubborn.

I disagree with your list. 1-4 is fine, arguable, but fine...wes Welker is not #5. There is a reason he wasn't anything super special in Miami, he's no #1, he's the best damn compliment wr in the game though. Marshall is more talented than most you have mentioned. Jackson is certainly in the top ten or should be very darn close. But I fail to see how he is not the best receiver on his own team. Gates is a TE, and even Gates thinks Jackson is super talented. Floyd? No way. Jackson doesn't get as much credit because San Diego does such a great job at spreading the ball around...especially to the RB's who caught 97 passes total last year. (106 in 08) Gates is a great talent...as a TE, but he would be average at best as a WR. He can not burn DB's in the secondary, and while his route running is excellent vs LB's, DB's would learn how to play him quickly. You can put Jackson as the #1, or even a slot receiver, and he would succeed, same can not be said for Gates. (I only use gates cause I am assuming that's who you were referring to)

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by jsarno

I disagree with your list. 1-4 is fine, arguable, but fine...wes Welker is not #5. There is a reason he wasn't anything super special in Miami, he's no #1, he's the best damn compliment wr in the game though.

What reason is that? It doesn't matter what he did in Miami. He was an undrafted free agent it's not hard to get overlooked, and even then he had to be doing something right because New England, who puts a high value on draft picks, traded a second round pick to get him. Players don't get 1,300 yards (in 14 games no less) by being average.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

What reason is that? It doesn't matter what he did in Miami. He was an undrafted free agent it's not hard to get overlooked, and even then he had to be doing something right because New England, who puts a high value on draft picks, traded a second round pick to get him. Players don't get 1,300 yards (in 14 games no less) by being average.

I never said he was average.
1- He's coming off an injury that is pretty darn massive.
2- He was never the #1 anywhere, on any team.
3- I already said he's the best compliment WR in the game, and I stand by that. What do you think would happen if he became the #1 wr? Think Santana Moss.
He's a very good wr...no doubt...just not a top ten IMO.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

What reason is that? It doesn't matter what he did in Miami. He was an undrafted free agent it's not hard to get overlooked, and even then he had to be doing something right because New England, who puts a high value on draft picks, traded a second round pick to get him. Players don't get 1,300 yards (in 14 games no less) by being average.

You actually probably could get 1,300 yards being average but playing in the slot where it's tough to cover. But I think I agree with you that very little of what Welker does could be describe as average. I mean, he is the focal point of the offense these days. And he still catches an obscene 70% of passes thrown to him, and he usually converts the first down, no matter where he catches it.

I don't know if Wes Welker is a top ten receiver in the NFL (I suspect he isn't), but he's perfect for his role, and the Pats have shown that they can keep using him as a workhorse and be successful.

Denver tried to do the same thing with Marshall last year. He got 100 catches, but his team lost 8 of their last 10 games and missed the playoffs. Marshall was pretty great in those first six games, but his season was littered with performances like 21 catches against the Colts for under ten yards/catch and two TDs when they are soundly beaten by the Colts.

[Mechanix544]

In my opinion, V Jackson is a pure #1 receiver, altho, not in the top 12 in the league. Maybe 12 or 13, but not even top 10.

-Fitz
-Johnson
-Johnson Jr.
-Moss
-Marshall
-Wayne
-White
-Smith
-Welker
-Austin
-Jennings




The guy wants to get paid like he is in the top 5 or 6 WR talents in the league. Not gonna happen, and I dont blame SD for calling his bluff. If V.J. doesn't somehow get signed to a team this year, he will, in my opinion, end up losing money when he does sign a deal after the CBA or before, whichever. Plus, think about these points. He gets one year older. He doesn't play football for over a year. He loses one more year towards being UFA. Teams will want to draft their next big WR instead of picking him up for a load of $. His price will definitely go down from what he is asking for now.

BUT.............


Look at our recent history drafting WR's. Shit, look at our two "no Miss" 2nd rounders. VJ in my honest opinion is definitely worth a 2nd rounder. A second and a 5th even. I think we should swing a deal with SD, and get a proven commodity instead of fvckin whiffing in the draft. If Shanny is all about WIN NOW, why not get this top tier, young recever in his prime for McNabb to throw to? When its all said and done, alot of the experts think when he does get signed, his susp. will only be 3 games, and the xtra 3 will get canned. We need to get this deal done. And we need him in practice now.

Jackson

Moss

Armstrong............Our WR's just went from a laughing stock to the best in the NFC East, and McNabb gets an additional weapon with great hands to throw to. If we are serious about making a push, we should make this deal. Definitely worth a 2 and 5.