I See QB Rumors (2012 QB Thread: The Sixth Sense)

[MTK]

Big thanks to SS for posting this.

For the non-believers please know that SS isn't going to just toss something against the wall to see if it sticks. A lot of times he lets the mods know about info he has, but he holds back before letting everyone else know until he can confirm it with other sources.

So if he's posting something here for everyone to see, it's more than just a rumor, it's something that has some potential.

[diehardskin2982]

Everyone assumes that Luck will be the next Aaron Rogers or Manning. What if we spend all those picks and Luck is the next Heath Shuler. Let's not forget that the Rams with Bradford are still picking second in the draft because they don't have quality players around him. We need quality talent and great depth more than we need a franchise QB.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by diehardskin2982

Everyone assumes that Luck will be the next Aaron Rogers or Manning. What if we spend all those picks and Luck is the next Heath Shuler. Let's not forget that the Rams with Bradford are still picking second in the draft because they don't have quality players around him. We need quality talent and great depth more than we need a franchise QB.

That is the exact opposite of what we need.

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by CapitalDefense

Neither do I, but look at the NFL playoffs, if you do not have a QB you are not making a run at a Superbowl. I love Orakpo, but if we can get Luck........... SEE YA!!!!!

In no particular order
Rogers
Manning
Stafford
Ryan
Brady
Rothlesberger (sp)
Flacco

That is 7 of your top 10 QB's in this league and 2 of them are going to the big game.

Joe flacco is not a top ten qb

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

Joe flacco is not a top ten qb

Top Nine in Total QBR this year:

1. Rodgers
2. Brees
3. Brady
4. Romo
5. Ryan
6. Schaub
7. Stafford
8. Rivers
9. Roethlisberger

As long as Peyton's active, he can't drop out of the top ten

Your next four:

Michael Vick
Carson Palmer
Matt Hasselbeck
Eli Manning

[CapitalDefense]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

Joe flacco is not a top ten qb

Ok replace Flacco with Brees, my bad, the argument still stands.

[GTripp0012]

Here's your Eli Manning conundrum: Manning spent a lot of his career playing with stiffs like Amani Toomer and Plaxico Burress, and his biggest weapon for a while was either Tiki Barber on screen passes, or Jeremy Shockey. He got his first true no. 1 WR (at least by the standards of the modern game; Toomer and Burress were adequate for the 2005 passing environment) in 2009. The best receiver he ever played with is Victor Cruz, who was undrafted and signed in Manning's seventh season, then spent a year on IR.

Could that have all been avoided if the Giants hadn't traded so much to get Manning? Maybe, maybe not. But if the payoff to trading up for a guy is one pro bowl before the age of 30, typically, your coach (at least) gets fired because of that trade, right?

I'm not saying Eli Manning hasn't been a successful quarterback for the Giants, but it took the guy who made the trade (Ernie Accorsi) retiring and getting a new personnel guy (Jerry Reese) in there to get the Giants over the top in the playoffs. Manning/Coughlin/Accorsi was essentially no better than Brunell/Gibbs/Cerrato or Bledsoe/Parcells/Jones. Manning only separated the Giants from the Redskins and the Cowboys deep into his career when the Giants started having really strong drafts.

[diehardskin2982]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Here's your Eli Manning conundrum: Manning spent a lot of his career playing with stiffs like Amani Toomer and Plaxico Burress, and his biggest weapon for a while was either Tiki Barber on screen passes, or Jeremy Shockey. He got his first true no. 1 WR (at least by the standards of the modern game; Toomer and Burress were adequate for the 2005 passing environment) in 2009. The best receiver he ever played with is Victor Cruz, who was undrafted and signed in Manning's seventh season, then spent a year on IR.

You must be joking with this statement. Toomer and Burress were legit big receivers. Hakeem Nicks is not a bad player. Plus they always had a strong power running game backing them up.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by diehardskin2982

You must be joking with this statement. Toomer and Burress were legit big receivers. Hakeem Nicks is not a bad player. Plus they always had a strong power running game backing them up.

What are you basing any of this on? A vague memory of the 2005 Giants?

[SirClintonPortis]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

What are you basing any of this on? A vague memory of the 2005 Giants?

The 2008 Giants were a well-oiled machine...until Burress literally shot himself. Toomer, sure, was not that good anymore.

[skinsfaninok]

Toomer was a damn good wr man and so was pb

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

Toomer was a damn good wr man and so was pb

Toomer's last 1000 yard season for the Giants came in 2003. Manning was drafted in 2004. His best season with Eli: 59 catches, 760 yards. Michael Crabtree this season: 72 catches, 874 yards.

Burress had 2 1,000 yard seasons for Eli, but Plaxico Burress is a career 50% catch rate guy. One of the most overrated careers in recent memory. Not a particularly good player, with the isolated exception of his red zone performance, a place where he had three really good seasons.

The Giants, when they won the super bowl in 2007, were kind of like this year's 49ers. If you looked hard enough, you could see good offensive talent, but they went as their defense went.

[NYCSkin]

Just a few questions to the forum re: the Bradford rumors...

Wasn't Jeff Fischer motivated (at least in some part) to take the Rams job because they had a perceived franchise QB in Sam Bradford? Now he wants to trade him and take a shot with a rookie QB (presumably RGIII)?

I imagine Gregg Williams would love to have Orakpo at his 4-3 end which is probably his best fit. But with Quinn and Long on their roster already--do they even need Orakpo?

I am not opposed to trading Orakpo who in my opinion is out of his natural position and seems to have plateaued. He seems to have less upside than Kerrigan. Rob Jackson could probably nearly equal Rak's production at this point. Certainly in those Geico commercials...

Leveraging Orakpo's trade value, who is part of the Skins strongest unit (LBs), to potentially improve the most critical position on the team seems like a smart and prudent strategy.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by NYCSkin

Just a few questions to the forum re: the Bradford rumors...

Wasn't Jeff Fischer motivated (at least in some part) to take the Rams job because they had a perceived franchise QB in Sam Bradford? Now he wants to trade him and take a shot with a rookie QB (presumably RGIII)?

I imagine Gregg Williams would love to have Orakpo at his 4-3 end which is probably his best fit. But with Quinn and Long on their roster already--do they even need Orakpo?

I am not opposed to trading Orakpo who in my opinion is out of his natural position and seems to have plateaued. He seems to have less upside than Kerrigan. Rob Jackson could probably nearly equal Rak's production at this point. Certainly in those Geico commercials...

Leveraging Orakpo's trade value, who is part of the Skins strongest unit (LBs), to potentially improve the most critical position on the team seems like a smart and prudent strategy.

More than anything he wants stability, even if it's a rookie. I still think though RG3 ends up in Miami.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

More than anything he wants stability, even if it's a rookie. I still think though RG3 ends up in Miami.

You think they are going to leapfrog up to #2 or #4 for him? Steep price to say the least. Anything on the Denver front about moving up as well?