Bucs Postgame

[skinsfan69]

The Evans play was within 5 yards. Nothing wrong w/ what he did.

[FrenchSkin]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

The Evans play was within 5 yards. Nothing wrong w/ what he did.

The 5 yards from LoS rule is for defense only, offense is not allowed to block past the LoS on a passing play.

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

The Evans play was within 5 yards. Nothing wrong w/ what he did.

Believe it was Brate and if so yeah they let it slide but it was obvious as day he leveled Fuller

[BaltimoreSkins]

The TB o-line played well. I do not have the data nor care to watch film and verify but I felt JDR rushed only four for much of the game. That is not going to get it done against that o-line and the GOAT. He is too good at stepping into the pocket and buying time. Heinicke played well but I still would prefer to get something in FA or trade. Wish our run game could have been existent. Overall thought the team played well.

[JackLord]

Not the worst ending to the CRAZIEST season ever in Skins history. For a while I thought they guys might just do it. The cornerstone has been laid.

[AnonEmouse]

Originally Posted by FrenchSkin

But when Apke catches the ball at the 9 by rule the ball is dead, anything that happened after that shouldn't count.

But that's the point, the ball is NOT dead, as he's still an active runner. If the ball had touched the ground while in his possession before he went into the end zone or his knee etc. had touched down beforehand then yes it would be a downed ball. But he caught it in mid air and ran straight into the EZ. There have been other examples in the past where a runners momentum carried him into the EZ and it was ruled a TB. Arguably the ref should have assessed it wasn't his momentum that carried him into the EZ, but you are asking the official to make a judgement call on whether a player deliberately ran over the goal line or not, and they are going to err on the side of caution.

NB I thought it hit his hand warmer on the replay but I only saw it from the one angle where it moved as the ball gets near him. That could easily be simultaneous movement and an optical illusion. I was a bit narked that we didn't get any other angles (at least I don't recall any) to confirm that. And the studio didn't seem keen on looking at it more closely so I can only assume it wasn't challenged because someone had an angle that confirmed it didn't hit.

[FrenchSkin]

Originally Posted by AnonEmouse

But that's the point, the ball is NOT dead, as he's still an active runner. If the ball had touched the ground while in his possession before he went into the end zone or his knee etc. had touched down beforehand then yes it would be a downed ball. But he caught it in mid air and ran straight into the EZ. There have been other examples in the past where a runners momentum carried him into the EZ and it was ruled a TB. Arguably the ref should have assessed it wasn't his momentum that carried him into the EZ, but you are asking the official to make a judgement call on whether a player deliberately ran over the goal line or not, and they are going to err on the side of caution.

NB I thought it hit his hand warmer on the replay but I only saw it from the one angle where it moved as the ball gets near him. That could easily be simultaneous movement and an optical illusion. I was a bit narked that we didn't get any other angles (at least I don't recall any) to confirm that. And the studio didn't seem keen on looking at it more closely so I can only assume it wasn't challenged because someone had an angle that confirmed it didn't hit.

Yes it is. You're not allowed to run back a punt as a member of the kicking team, the ball is dead when you catch it, he was absolutely NOT an active runner.

"The game clock operator shall stop the game clock (timeout) upon a signal by any official or upon the operator’s own positive knowledge:

b) when the kicking team recovers a scrimmage kick beyond the line of scrimmage;"

And then:

"When the kickers catch or recover a kick beyond the line of scrimmage, the ball is dead at the spot of recovery, even if a member of the receiving team has first touched the ball."

This is why I say the rule is badly written: on one hand the ball is dead when caught by a player of the kicking team... but on the other hand if he crosses the goal line it's a touchback.

Again, I think this rule was written for bang bang few centimeters of the goal line situations. I see how if you read it litteraly it could apply here, but I don't think it's the spirit of this rule.

[FrenchSkin]

This is an example of NFL rules differing from NCAA/IFAF rules and creating a rule bug.

Under NCAA/IFAF rules there's no such thing, because if a ball is touched/batted above the goal line the result is a touch back regardless of whether the kicking team's player touches the goal line or not (it's an illegal touch, not a foul, resulting in a touchback). On the other hand, if the ball is caught by a player of the kicking team the ball is dead and it's 1st down at the spot of recovery, regardless of what happens after that.

Makes it way clearer than the NFL rule IMO. But they must have tweaked the rule in order to allow this exciting play where a player can batt the ball above the goal line an avoid the touchback. But they should've specified the time element of this rule. Because having something that happened 5seconds + 10 yards after the ball was dead impact the play doesn't make much sense IMO.

Envoyé de mon SM-J320FN en utilisant Tapatalk

[AnonEmouse]

http://static.nfl.com/static/content...mmage_Kick.pdf

Section 2, article 2 - "First touching is a violation, and the receivers shall have the option of taking possession of the ball at the spot of first touching, provided no penalty is accepted on the play, or at the spot where the ball is dead."

Ball is not dead until the carrier downs it/himself or crosses the goal line. Had he dropped it after catching it, Tampa would have still been entitled to return it. By carrying it over the line Apke gave the Buccs the option to take the TB.

It is badly written/explained, and as I said, usually it's intended for occurrences where momentum carries the runner over the line, not a deliberate act. But you can't blame the officials for an interpretation of momentum when it's not defined in the rules (i.e. "Unless the player deliberately advances the ball" or the like).

[FrenchSkin]

Originally Posted by AnonEmouse

http://static.nfl.com/static/content...mmage_Kick.pdf

Section 2, article 2 - "First touching is a violation, and the receivers shall have the option of taking possession of the ball at the spot of first touching, provided no penalty is accepted on the play, or at the spot where the ball is dead."

Ball is not dead until the carrier downs it/himself or crosses the goal line. Had he dropped it after catching it, Tampa would have still been entitled to return it. By carrying it over the line Apke gave the Buccs the option to take the TB.

It is badly written/explained, and as I said, usually it's intended for occurrences where momentum carries the runner over the line, not a deliberate act. But you can't blame the officials for an interpretation of momentum when it's not defined in the rules (i.e. "Unless the player deliberately advances the ball" or the like).

Sorry pal, you're just wrong on that one. You're confusing an illegal touching of the ball and recovering the ball. There's absolutely no way you can run back a punt as a member of the kicking team, the ball is dead as soon as you recover it. I don't want to pull out the "I'm a ref" card because the NFL rule slightly differs from the ones I've studied, but you're confusing 2 different situations, first touching, and recovering.

Here's ESPN analysis on why it was a mistake.

"The ball should have been marked where Apke first gained possession, and not a touchback. By rule, a kick that goes past the line of scrimmage is dead as soon as a member of the kicking team downs it. The ball can't be advanced. There are many judgment calls over the course of a game that can be debated. This one was a matter of rule application. Washington should have been able to pin the Buccaneers deeper than it did."

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by FrenchSkin

Sorry pal, you're just wrong on that one. You're confusing an illegal touching of the ball and recovering the ball. There's absolutely no way you can run back a punt as a member of the kicking team, the ball is dead as soon as you recover it. I don't want to pull out the "I'm a ref" card because the NFL rule slightly differs from the ones I've studied, but you're confusing 2 different situations, first touching, and recovering.



Here's ESPN analysis on why it was a mistake.



"The ball should have been marked where Apke first gained possession, and not a touchback. By rule, a kick that goes past the line of scrimmage is dead as soon as a member of the kicking team downs it. The ball can't be advanced. There are many judgment calls over the course of a game that can be debated. This one was a matter of rule application. Washington should have been able to pin the Buccaneers deeper than it did."

Right and Apke should have known this. Zero skill plus zero brains = see ya later.

[FrenchSkin]

Originally Posted by punch it in

Right and Apke should have known this. Zero skill plus zero brains = see ya later.

He should have known this. .. but it shouldn't have made a difference because the refs should've known it too...

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[AnonEmouse]

Originally Posted by FrenchSkin

Sorry pal, you're just wrong on that one. You're confusing an illegal touching of the ball and recovering the ball.

I'm not. Touching the ball, whether caught or just touched does not make it dead. It's dead when the play is over and the ref blows up. If he carries the ball over the line before the ref blows, it's still live. That's why they ruled a touchback. That's why kicking teams try to bat the ball back into play before they make contact with the end zone; it's still live until it's blown dead. If it was dead at the point of touching, all they would have to do was make contact and not care where it ends up.

[FrenchSkin]

Originally Posted by AnonEmouse

I'm not. Touching the ball, whether caught or just touched does not make it dead. It's dead when the play is over and the ref blows up. If he carries the ball over the line before the ref blows, it's still live. That's why they ruled a touchback. That's why kicking teams try to bat the ball back into play before they make contact with the end zone; it's still live until it's blown dead. If it was dead at the point of touching, all they would have to do was make contact and not care where it ends up.

Again, you're confusing touching and recovering the ball. Touching doesn't make it a dead ball. Recovering it does. Please read my previous posts with attention, the rules and experts analysis say it better than me.

A player of the kicking team recovering (NOT TOUCHING, RECOVERING) the ball renders it dead, play is over. The crossing the goal line rule is for either touching the ball or simultaneously recovering and crossing the line.

[AnonEmouse]

Originally Posted by AnonEmouse

I'm not. Touching the ball, whether caught or just touched does not make it dead. It's dead when the play is over and the ref blows up. If he carries the ball over the line before the ref blows, it's still live. That's why they ruled a touchback. That's why kicking teams try to bat the ball back into play before they make contact with the end zone; it's still live until it's blown dead. If it was dead at the point of touching, all they would have to do was make contact and not care where it ends up.

Here we go:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agkHw7phYII