NFL on Fox: Has the Game Passed Gibbs By?

SmootSmack · 10-09-2004, 01:09 AM

James Brown and company weigh in

joecrisp · 10-09-2004, 02:27 AM

Jimmy Johnson makes a very good point about the formations and sets that Gibbs is running plays from.

Gibbs runs most of his running plays from the Singleback Big set (1 runningback, 1 tight end, 1 H-back, 2 WRs), usually with the WRs in a "twins" look on the H-back side. From this look, he has three basic plays that he runs, with the most basic being a simple off-tackle play with zone blocking. Off of that, he runs the counter and the cutback, which are designed to take advantage of overpursuit by the defense. Since he runs all of these plays from the same formation most of the time (occasionally throwing in some motion from the slot or the H-back), it becomes increasingly easier for the defense to diagnose the plays as the game goes on, particularly if they have studied their film-- as the Browns clearly did. It simply becomes a matter of looking for visual cues at that point.

The point that Jimmy Johnson is trying to make is that in his first tenure, Gibbs always ran the same basic plays, but he ran them from so many different looks, with pre-snap shifts and motion, that it was very difficult for the defense to key on anything. This time around, with the shorter playclock, Gibbs is having a hard time getting the play in on time, and Brunell simply doesn't have enough time to get the offense to the line of scrimmage and shuffle through a series of pre-snap shifts and motion. Gibbs has also tried to eliminate illegal motion and illegal formation penalties caused by receivers (cough, cough-- Gardner!-- ahem) lining up incorrectly. This makes Gibbs's offense much more predictable and readable for the defense, causing plays for negative yardage, and it's a primary factor in the offense's inability to move the ball consistently.

RedskinRat · 10-09-2004, 04:10 AM

It's not on the damn coach, it's the execution by the players that's killing us. I couldn't be more sick of this fad of bashing Coach Gibbs.

Shane · 10-09-2004, 04:37 AM

Yes, Jimmy Johnson's remarks are astute. However, as Johnson points out, it is a simple matter to correct:

Jimmy: "They should be able to eliminate some of these looks and run more plays out of every formation this week. That's all it takes. To run two or three different plays from the same formation."

The reality is that Joe Gibbs does have catching up to do. He is the de facto leader of the organization, and he has come in and begun a dramatic remodelling of our team. The game strategy he is finding out needs adjustment, and it takes actual experience to see that.

Joe is the quickest of learners and adapters, however, and he will make the changes needed. He isn't alone in this either - the staff as a whole is learning and everyone will sort this out.

The players also have to learn this new offense and execute it, and it isn't easy to learn to do this with superb efficiency overnight, as we found out 23 years ago when Gibbs first arrived in Washington.

So this season is probably best looked at as parallel to the 1981 season. By the end of that season, though we didn't make the playoffs, we were one of the best teams in the NFL.

That Guy · 10-09-2004, 04:44 AM

even if it had some truth?

joecrisp · 10-09-2004, 11:59 AM

I don't think they're bashing Gibbs, I think they're simply analyzing what has caused the offensive struggles to this point. Any honest evaluation of the situation would lead to the conclusion that, to some extent, the game has passed Gibbs by-- the shorter playclock; faster, smarter defenses-- but that doesn't mean he won't catch back up with it in short order. Let's face it-- the game has changed significantly since Gibbs' first tenure, and it's obvious that this offense will be a work in progress until Gibbs gains enough experience in the new NFL to respond effectively to those changes. Past experience tells us that Gibbs is very adaptable, and he will effect the necessary adjustments sooner rather than later.

Of course, this adjustment period has been extended and complicated by poor execution on the part of the offensive personnel. Gibbs has been forced to scale back his offense to accomodate the learning curve of his players. Receivers have struggled with the formations and motion, linemen have struggled to execute the zone run-blocking concepts, his runningback has struggled to get in-sync with his blockers, and everyone who's supposed to get the ball and hold onto it hasn't been able to do so.

It will take some time to overcome all of these obstacles, but Gibbs is more than equal to the challenge. There's nothing wrong with questioning Gibbs's performance, either-- after all, "it all starts at the top," doesn't it? He has made some critical strategical errors, that's for certain, and he is the first one to admit it. But mistakes are the catalyst of the learning process, and Gibbs is every bit as much a student at this point as his players.

redrock-skins · 10-09-2004, 02:00 PM

Can we play the whole season before Gibbs' demise is reported?

NY_Skinsfan · 10-09-2004, 03:10 PM

If our offense was really that predictable, wouldn't we have known about this a week sooner from Parcell's defense...It seems odd that with such a "predictable" offense nothing was said about it after the Dallas game. Parcells knows Gibbs better than any current coach so why didn't he figure this out?

That Guy · 10-09-2004, 08:18 PM

the game was simplified for the browns, AFTER dallas...

Daseal · 10-09-2004, 08:26 PM

It takes some time to accrew enough film to predict trends. I'd say at least 3-4 weeks worth of it. Preferrably more than that.

Wilbon on some 'skins show with George Michael said he was in the Browns locker room and even they said they knew what was coming. The panel also seemed to agree that Brunnell is doing a horrible job.

SKINSnCANES · 10-09-2004, 10:52 PM

I hope they busted their asses in practice this week and worked out a lot of these kinks

Gmanc711 · 10-10-2004, 01:37 AM

A win tommarow will silence all this crap.

offiss · 10-10-2004, 04:18 AM

This is all part of learning the new system, Gibb's can not institute the whole play book this early on, which would make us more unpredictable, you have to walk before you can run, I also believe that part of the problem is that Gibb's thinking isn't processing fast enough yet, to many thing's going on that he has to think about now, that was once second nature, this offense will come together all at once, but it will be a matter of time, if anyone think's Gibb's won't overcome this little obstacle, with his work ethic, don't bet the house on it.

Gibb's biggest attribute back in the day, was his unpredictability, have team's been able to figure out what's coming, probably, but how long will that last, this is Gibb's were talking about, not Dave Campo.

Luxorreb · 10-10-2004, 06:52 AM

Gibbs will work it out.
Not Dave Campo or Steve Spurrier.
Don't lose faith.
Redskins might be late starters this season even possibly starting 1-4 after Sunday, but I think they will finish strong.

bedlamVR · 10-10-2004, 07:35 AM

Gibbs offenene will come together towards the end of the year at the latest but at the moment it is a case of trying to walk before they run I feel. The point about him running the same basic plays is probably correct but then he always did the key to Gibbs offence is to be able to execute these basic plays to pick up positive yardage each time even if the opposing D knows exactlty what is comming. But right now we cannot hold onto the ball or stop commiting stupid penelties, that is the key to the Gibbs offence, smart efficeint football, good ball control and protection.

10-09-2004, 01:09 AM	#1
SmootSmack Uncle Phil Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 45,256	NFL on Fox: Has the Game Passed Gibbs By? James Brown and company weigh in __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

10-09-2004, 02:27 AM	#2
joecrisp The Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Charlottesville, VA Age: 48 Posts: 1,501	Jimmy Johnson makes a very good point about the formations and sets that Gibbs is running plays from. Gibbs runs most of his running plays from the Singleback Big set (1 runningback, 1 tight end, 1 H-back, 2 WRs), usually with the WRs in a "twins" look on the H-back side. From this look, he has three basic plays that he runs, with the most basic being a simple off-tackle play with zone blocking. Off of that, he runs the counter and the cutback, which are designed to take advantage of overpursuit by the defense. Since he runs all of these plays from the same formation most of the time (occasionally throwing in some motion from the slot or the H-back), it becomes increasingly easier for the defense to diagnose the plays as the game goes on, particularly if they have studied their film-- as the Browns clearly did. It simply becomes a matter of looking for visual cues at that point. The point that Jimmy Johnson is trying to make is that in his first tenure, Gibbs always ran the same basic plays, but he ran them from so many different looks, with pre-snap shifts and motion, that it was very difficult for the defense to key on anything. This time around, with the shorter playclock, Gibbs is having a hard time getting the play in on time, and Brunell simply doesn't have enough time to get the offense to the line of scrimmage and shuffle through a series of pre-snap shifts and motion. Gibbs has also tried to eliminate illegal motion and illegal formation penalties caused by receivers (cough, cough-- Gardner!-- ahem) lining up incorrectly. This makes Gibbs's offense much more predictable and readable for the defense, causing plays for negative yardage, and it's a primary factor in the offense's inability to move the ball consistently. Last edited by joecrisp; 10-09-2004 at 11:10 AM.

10-09-2004, 10:52 PM	#11
SKINSnCANES Pro Bowl Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: New Jersey Age: 42 Posts: 5,454	I hope they busted their asses in practice this week and worked out a lot of these kinks __________________ "I'm used to winning, coming from the University of Miami. " Clinton Portis

10-10-2004, 01:37 AM	#12
Gmanc711 Thank You, Sean. Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Gaithersburg, MD Age: 39 Posts: 7,506	A win tommarow will silence all this crap. __________________ #21

10-10-2004, 06:52 AM	#14
Luxorreb ^21^ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Richmond, Virginia Age: 52 Posts: 1,630	Gibbs will work it out. Not Dave Campo or Steve Spurrier. Don't lose faith. Redskins might be late starters this season even possibly starting 1-4 after Sunday, but I think they will finish strong. __________________ ^21^

10-09-2004, 04:10 AM	#3
RedskinRat Franchise Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: I'm in LA, trick! Posts: 8,700	It's not on the damn coach, it's the execution by the players that's killing us. I couldn't be more sick of this fad of bashing Coach Gibbs.

10-09-2004, 04:37 AM	#4
Shane Special Teams Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 277	Yes, Jimmy Johnson's remarks are astute. However, as Johnson points out, it is a simple matter to correct: *Jimmy: "They should be able to eliminate some of these looks and run more plays out of every formation this week. That's all it takes. To run two or three different plays from the same formation."* The reality is that Joe Gibbs does have catching up to do. He is the de facto leader of the organization, and he has come in and begun a dramatic remodelling of our team. The game strategy he is finding out needs adjustment, and it takes actual experience to see that. Joe is the quickest of learners and adapters, however, and he will make the changes needed. He isn't alone in this either - the staff as a whole is learning and everyone will sort this out. The players also have to learn this new offense and execute it, and it isn't easy to learn to do this with superb efficiency overnight, as we found out 23 years ago when Gibbs first arrived in Washington. So this season is probably best looked at as parallel to the 1981 season. By the end of that season, though we didn't make the playoffs, we were one of the best teams in the NFL.

10-09-2004, 04:44 AM	#5
That Guy Living Legend Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: VA Age: 42 Posts: 17,553	even if it had some truth?

10-09-2004, 11:59 AM	#6
joecrisp The Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Charlottesville, VA Age: 48 Posts: 1,501	I don't think they're bashing Gibbs, I think they're simply analyzing what has caused the offensive struggles to this point. Any honest evaluation of the situation would lead to the conclusion that, to some extent, the game has passed Gibbs by-- the shorter playclock; faster, smarter defenses-- but that doesn't mean he won't catch back up with it in short order. Let's face it-- the game has changed significantly since Gibbs' first tenure, and it's obvious that this offense will be a work in progress until Gibbs gains enough experience in the new NFL to respond effectively to those changes. Past experience tells us that Gibbs is very adaptable, and he will effect the necessary adjustments sooner rather than later. Of course, this adjustment period has been extended and complicated by poor execution on the part of the offensive personnel. Gibbs has been forced to scale back his offense to accomodate the learning curve of his players. Receivers have struggled with the formations and motion, linemen have struggled to execute the zone run-blocking concepts, his runningback has struggled to get in-sync with his blockers, and everyone who's supposed to get the ball and hold onto it hasn't been able to do so. It will take some time to overcome all of these obstacles, but Gibbs is more than equal to the challenge. There's nothing wrong with questioning Gibbs's performance, either-- after all, "it all starts at the top," doesn't it? He has made some critical strategical errors, that's for certain, and he is the first one to admit it. But mistakes are the catalyst of the learning process, and Gibbs is every bit as much a student at this point as his players.

10-09-2004, 02:00 PM	#7
redrock-skins Impact Rookie Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 783	Can we play the whole season before Gibbs' demise is reported?

10-09-2004, 03:10 PM	#8
NY_Skinsfan Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Albany, NY Age: 51 Posts: 838	If our offense was really that predictable, wouldn't we have known about this a week sooner from Parcell's defense...It seems odd that with such a "predictable" offense nothing was said about it after the Dallas game. Parcells knows Gibbs better than any current coach so why didn't he figure this out?

10-09-2004, 08:18 PM	#9
That Guy Living Legend Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: VA Age: 42 Posts: 17,553	the game was simplified for the browns, AFTER dallas...

10-09-2004, 08:26 PM	#10
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	It takes some time to accrew enough film to predict trends. I'd say at least 3-4 weeks worth of it. Preferrably more than that. Wilbon on some 'skins show with George Michael said he was in the Browns locker room and even they said they knew what was coming. The panel also seemed to agree that Brunnell is doing a horrible job.

10-10-2004, 04:18 AM	#13
offiss Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: sparta, new jersey [ northern jersey ] Age: 60 Posts: 3,097	This is all part of learning the new system, Gibb's can not institute the whole play book this early on, which would make us more unpredictable, you have to walk before you can run, I also believe that part of the problem is that Gibb's thinking isn't processing fast enough yet, to many thing's going on that he has to think about now, that was once second nature, this offense will come together all at once, but it will be a matter of time, if anyone think's Gibb's won't overcome this little obstacle, with his work ethic, don't bet the house on it. Gibb's biggest attribute back in the day, was his unpredictability, have team's been able to figure out what's coming, probably, but how long will that last, this is Gibb's were talking about, not Dave Campo.

10-10-2004, 07:35 AM	#15
bedlamVR Special Teams Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 389	Gibbs offenene will come together towards the end of the year at the latest but at the moment it is a case of trying to walk before they run I feel. The point about him running the same basic plays is probably correct but then he always did the key to Gibbs offence is to be able to execute these basic plays to pick up positive yardage each time even if the opposing D knows exactlty what is comming. But right now we cannot hold onto the ball or stop commiting stupid penelties, that is the key to the Gibbs offence, smart efficeint football, good ball control and protection.

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NFL on Fox: Has the Game Passed Gibbs By?

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