Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015

[irish]

[QUOTE=30gut;1115158]Griffin turning his career around is inextricably linked to Jay's relationship with him and Jay's belief in Griffin as well as Jay's own improvement as a HC-playcaller.

If Jay doesn't have more faith in Griffin then he did last year then its only a matter of time before Jay is gonna want someone else in there.[/QUOTE

Its not a matter of time, Jay already wants someone else in there. But like Solid Snake said, RG is Snyder's guy so Jay's hands are tied.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by irish

Its not a matter of time, Jay already wants someone else in there. But like Solid Snake said, RG is Snyder's guy so Jay's hands are tied.

I just don't believe that is true anymore.

Quite frankly, I think that (1) As of now, RGIII is still DS's guy; (2) If RGIII had had full seasons and off seasons up to this point and was still benched at the end of the year, he would no longer be DS's guy; (3) Given the particular facts of his acquisition, his career to date (including his 2012 season, his injuries & the coaching changes), and his athleticism & physical talents, RGIII has been given the benefit of doubt by DS and others up till now; and (4) RGIII will not be DS's guy to the tune of his 5th year extension unless he shows real improvement this year.

[irish]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

I just don't believe that is true anymore.

Quite frankly, I think that (1) As of now, RGIII is still DS's guy; (2) If RGIII had had full seasons and off seasons up to this point and was still benched at the end of the year, he would no longer be DS's guy; (3) Given the particular facts of his acquisition, his career to date (including his 2012 season, his injuries & the coaching changes), and his athleticism & physical talents, RGIII has been given the benefit of doubt by DS and others up till now; and (4) RGIII will not be DS's guy to the tune of his 5th year extension unless he shows real improvement this year.

I do.

!) Agree. 2)Who knows since RG didnt play. Also see NC Skins response. 3) You dont give up the world for a guy and not give him every benefit of the doubt. The Skins are doing what any team would. 4) Time will tell.

[KI Skins Fan]

There seems to be more internal politics involved in the QB position this season and we have a new GM, so I doubt that Jay has the authority to make any significant decisions regarding RGIII on his own. With that in mind, I can't imagine RGIII losing his starting position before Game 5 regardless of how poorly he plays.

[SolidSnake84]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

There seems to be more internal politics involved in the QB position this season and we have a new GM, so I doubt that Jay has the authority to make any significant decisions regarding RGIII on his own. With that in mind, I can't imagine RGIII losing his starting position before Game 5 regardless of how poorly he plays.

I don't imagine RG3 losing his job regardless no matter how poorly he plays. He's a Dan Snyder guy and a figurehead GM isn't going to change anybody's perception of that. We are long time fans here. No delusions of who is running the team, etc....

[30gut]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

There seems to be more internal politics involved in the QB position this season and we have a new GM, so I doubt that Jay has the authority to make any significant decisions regarding RGIII on his own. With that in mind, I can't imagine RGIII losing his starting position before Game 5 regardless of how poorly he plays.

I don't understand why the notion persists that Dan Snyder is actively meddling in the game time personnel decisions when it comes to Griffin.

When Dan and Mike Shanahan were clearly at odds Dan did not prevent Mike from benching Griffin.

Last season Dan didn't prevent Jay from benching him either.

The only internal politics about the QB position that I can see are the current HC never appeared to be willing/eager to work with the potential franchise QB he inherited. Jay imho expressed a rather curious amount of impatience and made no bones his feeling toward Griffin during the season. Jay's level of faith in Griffin is imho the biggest hurdle to Griffin's ability to max out his potential with Jay as his playcaller.

This season will answer many questions for me, the main question being whether a player/QB can have success with a HC/OC/playcaller that doesn't believe/want them.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by 30gut

I don't understand why the notion persists that Dan Snyder is actively meddling in the game time personnel decisions when it comes to Griffin.

Last season Dan didn't prevent Jay from benching him either.

The fact that Jay wanted to start Kirk Cousins at the beginning of last season is all you need to know that Dan Snyder does have a hand in these types of things. Sure he was allowed to bench him after Gruden made it obvious to them via game film that he was clueless back there.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

The fact that Jay wanted to start Kirk Cousins at the beginning of last season is all you need to know that Dan Snyder does have a hand in these types of things. Sure he was allowed to bench him after Gruden made it obvious to them via game film that he was clueless back there.

First of all its not a fact that Jay wanted to start Kirk last year. Let's get that straight before we have this discussion. A fact like that requires proof.

So you can't prove that Dan meddles based on a fiction that you invent.

Now with that cleared up let's discuss what actually was reported last year during training camp. Chris Russell reported that Jay and McVay were frustrated and impatient with Griffin early during camp. Now, let's stop and think about that for a second. A HC was hired and I'm sure one of the expressed or implied task was to develop the franchises most important asset: Griffin, a potential franchise QB. If Jay was already frustrated at that start of training camp I have 2 issues with that:
- i would be troubled that in the light of all of the media leaks from the previous HC that Jay already failed to keep team business in house
-second I could give a rats ass that Jay felt frustrated, he's not the first coach to frustrated with a QB and certainly won't be the last. He's the head guy for a reason and being able to coach and manage players, especially the QB is his job. And maybe he wouldn't be frustrated so quickly if he hired a complete coaching staff that included a QB coach and a more experienced OC

So for me Jays early impatience and frustration aren't dings against Griffin; in my eyes their dings against Jay.

And IF your previous fiction was true and Jay did want to start Kirk then it would be no surprise that Griffin struggled. I'm mean do you think a player can have success with HC-playcaller that doesn't believe in them/want them as a starter? And further IF Jay did want to start Kirk over Griffin then it would make me question the pretenses under which he was hired if he is ready to move on from one of his biggest tasks so quickly.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by 30gut

First of all its not a fact that Jay wanted to start Kirk last year. Let's get that straight before we have this discussion. A fact like that requires proof.

So you can't prove that Dan meddles based on a fiction that you invent.

I'm almost positive that Smoot said last year that Jay wanted to start Kirk coming out of training camp and eluded to the hand being forced. (via Dan through Bruce)

Originally Posted by 30gut

And IF your previous fiction was true and Jay did want to start Kirk then it would be no surprise that Griffin struggled. I'm mean do you think a player can have success with HC-playcaller that doesn't believe in them/want them as a starter? And further IF Jay did want to start Kirk over Griffin then it would make me question the pretenses under which he was hired if he is ready to move on from one of his biggest tasks so quickly.

The fact is, Griffin has had very little pro-style offense experience is why he struggled, not Gruden's faith in RG. Shanahan said it would take years for him to become acclimated to it since he missed out of it during college. It's why Kirk looks a lot more comfortable in the offense than Griffin.

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by 30gut

I don't understand why the notion persists that Dan Snyder is actively meddling in the game time personnel decisions when it comes to Griffin.

When Dan and Mike Shanahan were clearly at odds Dan did not prevent Mike from benching Griffin.

Last season Dan didn't prevent Jay from benching him either.

The only internal politics about the QB position that I can see are the current HC never appeared to be willing/eager to work with the potential franchise QB he inherited. Jay imho expressed a rather curious amount of impatience and made no bones his feeling toward Griffin during the season. Jay's level of faith in Griffin is imho the biggest hurdle to Griffin's ability to max out his potential with Jay as his playcaller.

This season will answer many questions for me, the main question being whether a player/QB can have success with a HC/OC/playcaller that doesn't believe/want them.

Regarding the bolded part of your comments: I also found that to be odd behavior by Jay. I have to believe that one of the key reasons Jay was hired was to develop RGIII and Kirk, yet he showed little patience with either one of them. If he was called on the carpet for that, then he deserved it.

The point I was trying to make is that I think higher management is holding Jay's feet to the fire in terms of his making a better effort to develop RGIII. If that is the case, then RGIII can't develop on the bench. That would mean that RGIII should have a longer leash this season, not a shorter one. That's why I think he gets at least four games to start the season.

[CRedskinsRule]

I hope the talk of being Dan Snyder's guy is just more of the same from the fans. I think SM thinks it's his team, and if he wants a guy gone, he will be gone. If the coach says he needs someone else, he'll get someone else.

I don't know if that is the way it is, but that's the only way this franchise will move forward. I also think fans hold on to outdated beliefs about ownership way too fervently.

[Hog1]

Bingo!
And at this point in the game, I would have done the same........

[That Guy]

i don't think rg3 is failing due to jay's lack of faith, i think he's failing because he can't feel the rush or read defenses well enough to be successful.

if you're getting the reps and the game time, you got to produce at some point. If you can't deal with the pressure, well, that's a personal problem. no one is actively rooting for him to fail - they all want to win games, but he's been the bottleneck lately.

[Ruhskins]

I think both RG3 and Gruden need to turn it around this year. While RG3's failures were his own doing, Jay didn't do that great of a job as a coach either.

My problem with Gruden is that he gave up too quickly on RG3 and tried to put all the blame on him. Technically he was right, but at the end of the day he's the coach of the team, and he has to be accountable with what happens with the team.

I think if things don't work out this year, both Gruden and RG3 will be gone.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I think both RG3 and Gruden need to turn it around this year. While RG3's failures were his own doing, Jay didn't do that great of a job as a coach either.

My problem with Gruden is that he gave up too quickly on RG3 and tried to put all the blame on him. Technically he was right, but at the end of the day he's the coach of the team, and he has to be accountable with what happens with the team.

I think if things don't work out this year, both Gruden and RG3 will be gone.

Agreed with most of your post except that IF Griffin struggles and Jay can win games with either Colt or Kirk then Jay should stay.