Who is Kirk Cousins?

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

forest or trees...I just see reality. Right now, we have zero options other than Cousins and he has played well enough to be retained to an average NFL starters contract.

Stop hating!

[30gut]

Originally Posted by NYCskinfan82

I just cant believe the double standard. I believe JC was a check down QB and people screamed at him yet KC is doing the same thing and most people are praising him. He reminds me of Chad Pennington smart QB arm not strong enough and looks like an NFL QB. I hope we don't make the same mistake Miami made with Tannenhill and sign KC to a stupid contract extension. Everyone is entitled to there opinion and our best QB doesn't dress on Sunday. Please come up with something better than is that Griffin must be Griffin typing that. Sheep.

Oh to be sure there are tons of double standards/double think when it comes to Jay's "development" of the QBs here. Especially in this forum where many of the most vociferous Cult of Kirk proponents spout. There is an understandable lack of objectivity because fans generally want the coach, team and FO to be right when they make decisions. Therefore there is an intrinsic urge to believe in what the franchise is doing. We want Kirk to be the guy because he's the guy the HC chose. And because we want him to be the guy some overlook flaws or anoint him as a higher tier QB then he's proven.

The Griffin situation here, to me, is an example of manufactured disapproval. It reminds me of Al Davis-Marcus Allen, except with modern viral back channel sports media sources/leaks.
But its all moot though, regardless of Griffin's superior talent/potential and production right/wrong/indifferent the HC here chose Kirk.

Back to Kirk. He does have arm talent/overall physical talent limitations compared top guys. But, he can be a productive QB in this offense. For me he's just shy of the Fitz right now and has the potential to be a Schaub (in Houston). And I think Scott will be more prudent then to give Kirk a Tannehill type deal.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Oh to be sure there are tons of double standards/double think when it comes to Jay's "development" of the QBs here. Especially in this forum where many of the most vociferous Cult of Kirk proponents spout. There is an understandable lack of objectivity because fans generally want the coach, team and FO to be right when they make decisions. Therefore there is an intrinsic urge to believe in what the franchise is doing. We want Kirk to be the guy because he's the guy the HC chose. And because we want him to be the guy some overlook flaws or anoint him as a higher tier QB then he's proven.



The Griffin situation here, to me, is an example of manufactured disapproval. It reminds me of Al Davis-Marcus Allen, except with modern viral back channel sports media sources/leaks.

But its all moot though, regardless of Griffin's superior talent/potential and production right/wrong/indifferent the HC here chose Kirk.



Back to Kirk. He does have arm talent/overall physical talent limitations compared top guys. But, he can be a productive QB in this offense. For me he's just shy of the Fitz right now and has the potential to be a Schaub (in Houston). And I think Scott will be more prudent then to give Kirk a Tannehill type deal.

Wow. So Griff, alot like HOF'er Marcus Allen, was railroaded and it has nothing to do with the absolute horrid play we have seen in both pre and regular seasons dating back to 2013? KC has not flat out earned the job? Ok. Also if Fitz was on this team you would bench Kirk in his favor? If you think Fitz is better rite now I can only imagine that would be the next logical step? SMFH.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by punch it in

Wow. So Griff, alot like HOF'er Marcus Allen, was railroaded and it has nothing to do with the absolute horrid play we have seen in both pre and regular seasons dating back to 2013? KC has not flat out earned the job? Ok. Also if Fitz was on this team you would bench Kirk in his favor? If you think Fitz is better rite now I can only imagine that would be the next logical step? SMFH.

Lol, yeah because that what I wrote right?

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Lol, yeah because that what I wrote right?

Yeah that's exactly what you wrote. Stand by your post. You said that Griffs situation is like Marcus Allens and that its personal. Completely insinuating that Cousins has not outplayed Griff on the field and earned the job. How the hell else can that be interpreted? You also said that u think KC is rite below Fitz. If u think the guy is a better qb than obviously you think he should start if he were on the team. If Brady or Cam or several other qb's were on our team that i think are better than Cousins than your damn straight they should start. Fitz isnt even remotely in that argument imo.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by punch it in

Yeah that's exactly what you wrote. Stand by your post. You said that Griffs situation is like Marcus Allens and that its personal. Completely insinuating that Cousins has not outplayed Griff on the field and earned the job. How the hell else can that be interpreted? You also said that u think KC is rite below Fitz. If u think the guy is a better qb than obviously you think he should start if he were on the team. If Brady or Cam or several other qb's were on our team that i think are better than Cousins than your damn straight they should start. Fitz isn't even remotely in that argument imo.

Lol, from this post it appears you struggle with what the words 'exactly' and 'insinuate' mean. But, you don't need me to spin yourself in circles. By all means continue. It amuses me.

Btw, after you get done chasing your tail maybe you could post Fitz vs Kirk this year? Or not, either way makes no difference to me.

Cheers!

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Oh to be sure there are tons of double standards/double think when it comes to Jay's "development" of the QBs here. Especially in this forum where many of the most vociferous Cult of Kirk proponents spout. There is an understandable lack of objectivity because fans generally want the coach, team and FO to be right when they make decisions. Therefore there is an intrinsic urge to believe in what the franchise is doing. We want Kirk to be the guy because he's the guy the HC chose. And because we want him to be the guy some overlook flaws or anoint him as a higher tier QB then he's proven.

The Griffin situation here, to me, is an example of manufactured disapproval. It reminds me of Al Davis-Marcus Allen, except with modern viral back channel sports media sources/leaks.
But its all moot though, regardless of Griffin's superior talent/potential and production right/wrong/indifferent the HC here chose Kirk.

Back to Kirk. He does have arm talent/overall physical talent limitations compared top guys. But, he can be a productive QB in this offense. For me he's just shy of the Fitz right now and has the potential to be a Schaub (in Houston). And I think Scott will be more prudent then to give Kirk a Tannehill type deal.

Are you seriously, with a straight face going to compare the two situations? Allen was benched cause it was personal w/ Al Davis. Griffin was benched for performance.

Allen was one of the most respected and well liked guys on the team. Not to mention he was a truly GREAT player. Just not the case with Griffin.

Also. you keep mentioning Griffin's superior skill set. And he is probably better than KC in a combine setting. But when it actually comes down to dropping back with an actual pass rush, that's where KC is and has always been better.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Are you seriously, with a straight face going to compare the two situations?

Yes.

Obviously, very few situations are exactly alike but for me their situations have common elements.
If you're really interested in what I think those common elements are feel free to PM. But is this thread really the place for that?

Also. you keep mentioning Griffin's superior skill set. And he is probably better than KC in a combine setting. But when it actually comes down to dropping back with an actual pass rush, that's where KC is and has always been better.

We don't need to re-hash this. It seems many like to pretend that Griffin's rookie year didn't actually happen....but it did. And his superior talent, potential and production were on display.

Now do you want to quibble over old stuff where we disagree or acknowledge common ground where we agree that Kirk is better in this offense with Jay?

[skinsfan69]

Arm strength to me is the most overrated thing about being a great QB. Newton is now in his 5th year as a starter, and is finally starting to learn how to be a passer. Not a thrower but a passer.

There are so many guys in the HOF and guys that are going to the HOF that don't have arms like Cam Newton. I want a passer first, not a thrower. I think KC is a passer first and not a thrower. He just needs to keep playing and getting more experience, and stay in the same offense.

[skinsfaninok]

Rg3 will get his chance next yr, imo he's never going to be a good passing QB, he just doesn't have that gift.

[NoCalHail]

The problem with the Griffin vs. Cousins debate is that most people have to be so extreme in one direction or another. Me personally, regardless of what I felt Robert's potential could have been post-2013, I have let it go and am willing to move forward with Kirk as long as he is signed to a reasonable amount and he isn't paid like a Top QB. My fear right now is that because the market for QB's is so starved we will either have to overpay him or see him starting for someone else next year.

Griffin wasn't bad in 2013. I am not sure why people keep saying he was. He was a typical 2nd year QB that the league adjusted to, not to mention he was playing with a brace on his knee to protect an injury that likely wasn't healed so you can even argue he should have never been on the field until mid-season to begin with. His passing stats however weren't bad. There is no doubt in my mind that when his knee got wrecked it did more to him than take away his ability to run and escape pressure. You talk to any player who has had to have reconstructive surgery and they will tell you it takes pretty much a season of playing on the repaired body part to strengthen it again and build your confidence mentally that you can once again fully use it.

Fast forward to 2014 and it seemed from the outside that Gruden was brought in to help develop Griffin but pretty much early on gave up on that idea for whatever reason and was looking to move on from Griffin asap. So do I think Griffin got a bit rail-roaded? Sure. I don't think it was personal though. I think it was a football decision as Gruden runs a WCO and felt that Griffin was not the best QB on the roster to run it.

Now, that's a completely different issue as to whether once Kirk was named the starter, if he went out and earned the right to stay the starter which IMO, he has and should be starting for us at least for the next couple of seasons. He has earned that right regardless and despite however you feel about the Griffin situation.

It's not really a Kirk vs. Griffin situation, it's a clown car organization issue that until very recently, never seemed to handle anything correctly.

[over the mountain]

[rocnrik]

I am not hating on anybody! Let me clear the air on my post..I would have LOVED IT if RGIII would have continued his fantastic play after his rookie season..however something drastic happened and anybody that knows anything about football witnessed his tremendous fall..I believe it was a combination of many things ..INJURIES,COACHING,His college background not preparing him to be a pocket passer, HIS ATTITUDE..the system..the opposing NFL defense catching up to his game..etc etc..anyways We gave up a ton to draft him and things were looking very bleak..luckily somebody had enough foresight to draft another QB later in that draft ..Kirk came here in the RGIII shadow and did what he was told..he supported RGIII . Now that he has his chance You darn skippy I am on board and pulling for him just like i did RGIII ! he is the best option we have this year and next unless we are willing to trade away the future again for another vet QB to come in here (Brees etc..) would i trade cousins for Brees..uh YES ..but who is gonna do that? I think Cousins right now is the best QB we have available to play for the Redskins ..that is who he is! nothing more nothing less. To the Cousins doubters I have question for you..IF he leaves after this season WHO WILL THE QB BE NEXT YEAR? and how much will we give up to get that QB? here is another question..Between RGIII and Cousins which one do you believe will have the longest and most productive career regardless of the team they play for.

[CRedskinsRule]

Santana Moss' point of view regarding both KC and RGIII

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...omewhere-else/

on KC

DC Sports Bog
Santana Moss: RGIII needs a second chance somewhere else

Moss also discussed Cousins, including the occasional comparisons to Chad Pennington, another quarterback Moss played with. The receiver said Cousins’s arm might be stronger than Pennington’s, but that Pennington accomplished too much to be compared with a first-year starter.

“But Kirk can be that guy. Kirk can be great,” Moss said. “And like I said years before, I see so much potential in those guys, and it just was sad that those guys both was young and had to be under each other. You can’t learn from nobody. It’s hard to just sit there.”

Moss also he thought Cousins sometimes tried to do too much early in his career to live up to Griffin’s example.

“I could be wrong…but at times [it seemed like] Kirk would say ‘I’m gonna muscle this ball in there because Robert muscled that in there.’ And Robert has that arm, and you’d [think] no, that ain’t Kirk’s style, don’t throw that Kirk. And we would say that in practice to each other. We never said that to him, but we knew the pressure. Kirk was trying to be on that field, so he was going to do things — I’m going to take a chance, even though I know my arm might not be as strong as his, I’m going to take a chance. But if you watch him play his game, he’s the best at playing his game.”

on RGIII

“Griffin can be a quarterback in this league,” Moss said. “Honestly. I think he’s due a second chance somewhere. I can’t sit here and tell you if it’s here, because I feel like sometimes you need to get away. You need to leave [a place] where it just seems like it’s done. But I think he needs a second chance, and I just think he’s got to get in an offense like the first year, and be able to do special things.

pretty interesting piece that should give everybody a slightly different perspective

[DYoungJelly]

Santana weighs in with more common sense than any writer or talking head who has covered the saga.

I don't think Griffin will be a starting NFL QB for a variety of reasons but he's right, he has to get out of DC and try.