Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even?

MTK · 12-01-2005, 11:36 PM

Let's not play it like Gibbs lucked himself in to a top defense. He knows how to surround himself with quality coaches.

Spurrier did have Marvin Lewis and a quality defense, but Lewis was brought in by Snyder, not Spurrier.

We let the wrong guy go when Lewis left.

SmootSmack · 12-02-2005, 12:13 AM

Ironically, Spurrier did better with key members of Marty's team (Davis, Gardner) in his first year than he did with his own key players (Trung, Coles) in his second year. Anyhow, let's break it down even further per Hog1's request: (ranks based on points scored and allowed):

Spurrier Year 1:

7-9
Offense Rank-#25
Defense Rank-#21
W-L (games decided by 7 points or less): 3-3
W-L (games decided by 21 points or more): 0-2
Yards rushing/game: 118
Yards passing/game: 220
Yards rushing allowed/game: 109
Yard passing allowed/game: 205

Spurrier Year 2:

5-11
Offense Rank: #22
Defense Rank: #24
W-L (games decided by 7 points or less): 4-7
W-L (games decided by 21 points or more): 0-3
Yards rushing/game: 103
Yards passing/game: 204
Yards rushing allowed/game: 138
Yards passing allowed/game: 209

Gibbs Year 1:

6-10
Offense Rank: #31
Defense Rank: #5
W-L (games decided by 7 points or less): 4-7
W-L (games decided by 21 points or less): 1-1
Yards rushing/game: 110
Yards passing/game: 180
Yards rushing allowed/game: 82
Yards passing allowed/game: 186

Gibbs Year 2 (through 11 games):

5-6
Offense Rank: #21
Defense Rank: #16
W-L (games decided by 7 points or less): 4-5
W-L (games decided by 21 points or more): 1-1
Yards rushing/game: 113
Yards passing/game: 212
Yards rushing allowed/game: 97
Yards passing allowed/game: 175

Master4Caster · 12-02-2005, 01:44 AM

It's not that "we" didn't give Spurrier another chance. He left in frustration.
Spurrier came to the NFL to see if his football principles would work at the professional level. It's pretty obvious that they don't. Spurrier is a good enough football guy to have adapted, but he disliked being "NFL-ized." I'm not commenting on his frustration with the owner. However, Spurrier ruined Patrick Ramsey as an NFL-ized quarterback.
Joe Gibbs is the only coach that Danny Snyder will not hinder. That alone make him more valuable than Spurrier.

In five years, Gibbs will have remade the Redskins from the inside out, with a stronger salary cap position and better evaluation of talent. Spurrier wouldn't have been able to do that. Remember he wanted Danny Wuerffel on the roster.

jamf · 12-02-2005, 03:35 AM

Im tired of hearing about the ruining of patrick ramsey. WTF!!! was he joe montana or john elway and spurrier became coach and made him patrick ramsey?

It's clear that Gibbs doesnt like Ramsey. We love his arm but i bet jeff george can still throw farther than ramsey.
I personally fell in love with ramsey during the titans game his rookie year. we were behind big and ramsey comes in and takes monster shots but keeps tossing the ball around. He is Tough and Strong. Unfortunately he is as dumb as dog shit.

Spurrier is a good coach. every coach needs time. no one turns a team around that quickly in the salary cap era.

Even gibbs is having major issues adjusting...
the irony is that spurrier put everyone in a passing route while gibbs is putting everyone to block and they both are about even statistically.

now if you are one of those fools that goes by stats/records to measure success, barry switzer wants to show you his superbowl ring....

Beemnseven · 12-02-2005, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamf

Im tired of hearing about the ruining of patrick ramsey. WTF!!! was he joe montana or john elway and spurrier became coach and made him patrick ramsey?

the irony is that spurrier put everyone in a passing route while gibbs is putting everyone to block and they both are about even statistically.

Those are the best points of this thread. Everybody said that Ramsey was basically poisoned by Spurrier, and now, suddenly, it turns out that maybe PR just isn't a good quarterback.

To me, the pass protection similarities are the most disturbing of all. By this point, shouldn't the offensive line have established itself as one of the most dominant in the league? Or would that be an "unrealistic expectation" ??

That Guy · 12-03-2005, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

To me, the pass protection similarities are the most disturbing of all. By this point, shouldn't the offensive line have established itself as one of the most dominant in the league? Or would that be an "unrealistic expectation" ??

I didn't really expect them to be a top 5 oline... but I sure thought they'd be doing a bit better than what i've seen. Sometimes there are monster plays, other times, samuels just quits blocking midplay and oops... sack.

It took a year to fix our crappy kick coverage issues... maybe it another year before our oline turns it on full force?

CRT3 · 12-08-2005, 06:11 PM

Is there a stat for lockerroom? Seems Spurrier had lost controll of his team internally. Allowing the players to dictate the mood in the locker room. Gibbs is the boss and what he says goes. We are so much more competative with Gibbs. Is this really a question that needs to be asked? If you ask it maybe you should just go cheer for the gamecocks or how about the cowgurls.

Luxorreb · 12-02-2005, 03:41 AM

Spurrier was a joke. Gibbs is a legend. No matter how Gibbs' tenure figures there is NO comparison. Sorry folks, none. 'What have you done for me lately' is shortened to 'what have you done'. End of discussion.

celts32 · 12-02-2005, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luxorreb

Spurrier was a joke. Gibbs is a legend. No matter how Gibbs' tenure figures there is NO comparison. Sorry folks, none. 'What have you done for me lately' is shortened to 'what have you done'. End of discussion.

amen...

VTSkins897 · 12-02-2005, 09:16 AM

ramsey just needs a new home. i'm willing to bet that he could revive his career with another franchise. certainly he's no mark brunell... but the ravens, lions, jets, dolphins, and maybe some others could use him. i don't think the nfl has seen the last of Ramsey as a starter.

That Guy · 12-03-2005, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamf

I personally fell in love with ramsey during the titans game his rookie year. we were behind big and ramsey comes in and takes monster shots but keeps tossing the ball around. He is Tough and Strong. Unfortunately he is as dumb as dog shit.

There's my vote for quote of the year.

That Guy · 12-06-2005, 06:39 PM

under spurrier 12-20
under gibbs 12-16

but beyond the records, gibbs team is trending upwards, SS's went downhill. JG's team doesn't point fingers, has better talent evaluation, etc. I don't know why this even came up.

LRT · 12-07-2005, 07:28 AM

Wow. I would not have imagined there would be so much debate on this topic. To me, it is clear that Gibbs in the superior coach and that the team is doing better now than under Spurier. And I think there are clear reasons to believe so:

First, Spurier inherited a fairly disciplined .500 team that had been trending in the right direction under Shottenheimer. Gibbs inherited an undisciplined below .500 team that was falling apart at the end of the Spurier era. I don't think we can underestimate how much Gibbs had to undo to get this team anywhere close to where he wanted it to be.

Second, Spurier's first 7-9 season, which held some promise, was largely ghost-written by Marvin Lewis. Once Lewis left, not only did the defense sour, but the team seemed to lose whatever discipline it had had the year before. As good a college coach as Spurier may be, it just flat out looked over his head in the NFL and without Lewis on the sidelines, that became very obvious in the second season. I remember seeing Spurier on TV looking confused, lost and even disinterested during games. Add to that reports from Lavar Arrington that players were "casual" about loses and didn't seem to care. Contrast that with the discipline, determination and the general sense of calm professionalism that comes from this team, even in the face of adversity.

Third, Spurier's version of the Skins tanked in the second year, rapidly losing ground from the year before. Gibbs' team, however, has improved steadily. It did so at the end of last season and has done so this season. In Spurier's second year, the team felt like an out-of-control car heading for a wreck. Does anyone really get that feeling from this team?

In my humble opinion, Spurier took over a decent team on the right track when he replaced Shottenheimer (Synder's biggest mistake, I think, was firing Shottemheimer after one season) and wrecked it. Gibbs, however, took over a broken team (think of the Cardinals or Lions) and is steadily rebuilding it.

irish · 12-07-2005, 09:27 AM

The biggest difference between JG and OBC is that JG has front office support and trust, OBC did not. I think if OBC had this kind of support he would have been successful.

Redskins_P · 12-07-2005, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish

The biggest difference between JG and OBC is that JG has front office support and trust, OBC did not. I think if OBC had this kind of support he would have been successful.

Huh? OBC had all the support from the front office. Snyder did everything he could to get the players OBC wanted. How did he not have the support?

OBC quit. Nuff said!

12-02-2005, 03:35 AM	#4
jamf Pro Bowl Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: San Diego Ca Posts: 5,427	Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even? Im tired of hearing about the ruining of patrick ramsey. WTF!!! was he joe montana or john elway and spurrier became coach and made him patrick ramsey? It's clear that Gibbs doesnt like Ramsey. We love his arm but i bet jeff george can still throw farther than ramsey. I personally fell in love with ramsey during the titans game his rookie year. we were behind big and ramsey comes in and takes monster shots but keeps tossing the ball around. He is Tough and Strong. Unfortunately he is as dumb as dog shit. Spurrier is a good coach. every coach needs time. no one turns a team around that quickly in the salary cap era. Even gibbs is having major issues adjusting... the irony is that spurrier put everyone in a passing route while gibbs is putting everyone to block and they both are about even statistically. now if you are one of those fools that goes by stats/records to measure success, barry switzer wants to show you his superbowl ring....

12-08-2005, 06:11 PM	#7
CRT3 Impact Rookie Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Rockville Age: 63 Posts: 795	Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even? Is there a stat for lockerroom? Seems Spurrier had lost controll of his team internally. Allowing the players to dictate the mood in the locker room. Gibbs is the boss and what he says goes. We are so much more competative with Gibbs. Is this really a question that needs to be asked? If you ask it maybe you should just go cheer for the gamecocks or how about the cowgurls. __________________ 16-0 for 2007

12-02-2005, 03:41 AM	#8
Luxorreb ^21^ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Richmond, Virginia Age: 54 Posts: 1,630	Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even? Spurrier was a joke. Gibbs is a legend. No matter how Gibbs' tenure figures there is NO comparison. Sorry folks, none. 'What have you done for me lately' is shortened to 'what have you done'. End of discussion. __________________ ^21^

12-02-2005, 09:16 AM	#10
VTSkins897 Impact Rookie Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Richmond, VA Age: 43 Posts: 890	Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even? ramsey just needs a new home. i'm willing to bet that he could revive his career with another franchise. certainly he's no mark brunell... but the ravens, lions, jets, dolphins, and maybe some others could use him. i don't think the nfl has seen the last of Ramsey as a starter.

12-06-2005, 06:39 PM	#12
That Guy Living Legend Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: VA Age: 43 Posts: 17,620	Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even? under spurrier 12-20 under gibbs 12-16 but beyond the records, gibbs team is trending upwards, SS's went downhill. JG's team doesn't point fingers, has better talent evaluation, etc. I don't know why this even came up.

12-01-2005, 11:36 PM	#1
MTK Hail Raiser Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 53 Posts: 100,048	Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even? Let's not play it like Gibbs lucked himself in to a top defense. He knows how to surround himself with quality coaches. Spurrier did have Marvin Lewis and a quality defense, but Lewis was brought in by Snyder, not Spurrier. We let the wrong guy go when Lewis left.

12-02-2005, 12:13 AM	#2
SmootSmack Uncle Phil Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 45,256	Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even? Ironically, Spurrier did better with key members of Marty's team (Davis, Gardner) in his first year than he did with his own key players (Trung, Coles) in his second year. Anyhow, let's break it down even further per Hog1's request: (ranks based on points scored and allowed): Spurrier Year 1: 7-9 Offense Rank-#25 Defense Rank-#21 W-L (games decided by 7 points or less): 3-3 W-L (games decided by 21 points or more): 0-2 Yards rushing/game: 118 Yards passing/game: 220 Yards rushing allowed/game: 109 Yard passing allowed/game: 205 Spurrier Year 2: 5-11 Offense Rank: #22 Defense Rank: #24 W-L (games decided by 7 points or less): 4-7 W-L (games decided by 21 points or more): 0-3 Yards rushing/game: 103 Yards passing/game: 204 Yards rushing allowed/game: 138 Yards passing allowed/game: 209 Gibbs Year 1: 6-10 Offense Rank: #31 Defense Rank: #5 W-L (games decided by 7 points or less): 4-7 W-L (games decided by 21 points or less): 1-1 Yards rushing/game: 110 Yards passing/game: 180 Yards rushing allowed/game: 82 Yards passing allowed/game: 186 Gibbs Year 2 (through 11 games): 5-6 Offense Rank: #21 Defense Rank: #16 W-L (games decided by 7 points or less): 4-5 W-L (games decided by 21 points or more): 1-1 Yards rushing/game: 113 Yards passing/game: 212 Yards rushing allowed/game: 97 Yards passing allowed/game: 175 __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

12-02-2005, 01:44 AM	#3
Master4Caster Special Teams Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: DC area Posts: 374	Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even? It's not that "we" didn't give Spurrier another chance. He left in frustration. Spurrier came to the NFL to see if his football principles would work at the professional level. It's pretty obvious that they don't. Spurrier is a good enough football guy to have adapted, but he disliked being "NFL-ized." I'm not commenting on his frustration with the owner. However, Spurrier ruined Patrick Ramsey as an NFL-ized quarterback. Joe Gibbs is the only coach that Danny Snyder will not hinder. That alone make him more valuable than Spurrier. In five years, Gibbs will have remade the Redskins from the inside out, with a stronger salary cap position and better evaluation of talent. Spurrier wouldn't have been able to do that. Remember he wanted Danny Wuerffel on the roster. __________________ Master4Caster http://runningredskins.blogspot.com http://mvn.com/nfl-redskins

12-07-2005, 07:28 AM	#13
LRT Special Teams Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Springfield, VA Age: 60 Posts: 174	Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even? Wow. I would not have imagined there would be so much debate on this topic. To me, it is clear that Gibbs in the superior coach and that the team is doing better now than under Spurier. And I think there are clear reasons to believe so: First, Spurier inherited a fairly disciplined .500 team that had been trending in the right direction under Shottenheimer. Gibbs inherited an undisciplined below .500 team that was falling apart at the end of the Spurier era. I don't think we can underestimate how much Gibbs had to undo to get this team anywhere close to where he wanted it to be. Second, Spurier's first 7-9 season, which held some promise, was largely ghost-written by Marvin Lewis. Once Lewis left, not only did the defense sour, but the team seemed to lose whatever discipline it had had the year before. As good a college coach as Spurier may be, it just flat out looked over his head in the NFL and without Lewis on the sidelines, that became very obvious in the second season. I remember seeing Spurier on TV looking confused, lost and even disinterested during games. Add to that reports from Lavar Arrington that players were "casual" about loses and didn't seem to care. Contrast that with the discipline, determination and the general sense of calm professionalism that comes from this team, even in the face of adversity. Third, Spurier's version of the Skins tanked in the second year, rapidly losing ground from the year before. Gibbs' team, however, has improved steadily. It did so at the end of last season and has done so this season. In Spurier's second year, the team felt like an out-of-control car heading for a wreck. Does anyone really get that feeling from this team? In my humble opinion, Spurier took over a decent team on the right track when he replaced Shottenheimer (Synder's biggest mistake, I think, was firing Shottemheimer after one season) and wrecked it. Gibbs, however, took over a broken team (think of the Cardinals or Lions) and is steadily rebuilding it.

12-07-2005, 09:27 AM	#14
irish Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 4,575	Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even? The biggest difference between JG and OBC is that JG has front office support and trust, OBC did not. I think if OBC had this kind of support he would have been successful.

Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even?

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