rooting for Goliath

[KLHJ2]

You know, I admit that when Snyder was making all of those big spendings like Deion and so forth I was impressed that he even tried to get big name players. He was at least trying to improve his team. He could not help the fact they were out of their prime time. Since he took over we have always had a kick ass off season.The sad part was that it didn't always translate into wins. I am happy to say that with Joe Gibbs's return improvements have been made. And to the credit of the spoiled rich kid it is finally starting to work out for him. All he has ever wanted for the Skins is to bee winners, and he has proven that. He has done nothing more than any of us have done while playing Madden football. Hiring the best free agents in order for us to easier win the Super Bowl. Yet we criticize him constantly. One day all of that spent money is going to translate into a Super Bowl. So stop complaining about his open pockets, and welcome them. We will thank him later!

[Huddle]

angryssg says:

Yet we criticize him [Snyder] constantly. One day all of that spent money is going to translate into a Super Bowl. So stop complaining about his open pockets, and welcome them. We will thank him later!

I don't think you'll find too many Redskins fans complaining but that's not what we're talking about here.

[Sociofan]

Okay, as a Red Sox fanatic, I immediataly resent any comparisons of the Redskins to the Yankees.

The reality is that you cannot compare the Redskins to any baseball team. There is no cap in baseball and so Steinbrenner can outspend other teams by twice as much if he so chooses. In football, each team is held to the same annual spending limit. Granted, you can spend creatively, but everyone in the end is allowed exactly the same amount.

What is more curious to me is the criticism of the signings. Snyder, in my opinion, just completed one of the most targeted and well conceived free agent signing periods of his ownership. He gave a lot of up front money, but the overall contracts were reasonable. And yet we have Dallas signing players like Fabini (3 years up to $7.5M) who is physically questionable at best, Owens ($10M per), who needs no description of his risks, and Ayodele (5 years $17M), who is a pure 4-3 LB to insert into a 3-4 scheme (note: Fujita had to be cast off from Dallas this offseason for the very same reason). How is it that the former poster boy for excess (Jerry Jones) has avoided the same criticisms?

Jack Kent Cooke used to spend money like he was printing it and would routinely have one of (if not THE) highest payrolls in the NFL. Yet people loved him and the Skins. Was it because he was the cantankerous old curmudgeon? And Snyder is the brash young executive? To be honest, they are a lot more alike than many recognize. Above all, both love(d) this team and they would spend whatever it took to get the talent needed to win.

The Skins have been a goliath for the past 30 years. The only thing that has changed is the media's perception of the goliath.

[Huddle]

Sociofan

Okay, as a Red Sox fanatic, I immediataly resent any comparisons of the Redskins to the Yankees.

Relax. I used the Yankees as an analogy to help explain the reasons for the public attitude. The use of an analogy does not imply that its author is drawing comparisons beyond the idea presented.

Jack Kent Cooke used to spend money like he was printing it and would routinely have one of (if not THE) highest payrolls in the NFL. Yet people loved him and the Skins.

Free agency makes Snyder's spending more obvious.

The Skins were criticized for keeping the most players on IR year after year (there was no limit then).

[That Guy]

didn't jerry win a SB ? I figure that can take some pressure off you.

[dmek25]

i live in the heart of eagle country and they despise dan snyder.they will not admit to it,but the reason is pure jealousy.year after year us redskin fans know that our owner will spend every nickel that he is allowed to put the best,most competitive team on the field.in the eagles situation,they know that their owner will try to shortcut the cap,make low ball offers to players,and really not be a major player in free agency.they are happy to be 10-12 million under the cap every year(im not sure why?)

[Huddle]

Originally Posted by dmek25

in the eagles situation,they know that their owner will try to shortcut the cap,make low ball offers to players,and really not be a major player in free agency.they are happy to be 10-12 million under the cap every year(im not sure why?)

With the on-field success the Eagles have enjoyed in recent years, their fans have no reason to be unhappy. They will sing a different tune if their team suffers some lean years.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Huddle

With the on-field success the Eagles have enjoyed in recent years, their fans have no reason to be unhappy. They will sing a different tune if their team suffers some lean years.

I live in the Philly suburbs, and I think what gets to the fans around here more than anything is that no pro sports team here has won a title since the Phillies in 1980. The town has been teased by the 1983 Phillies, 1993 Phillies, 2001 Sixers, and 2004 Eagles all making it to the finals and losing. They're upset because they get so close to winning it all and then lose it.

PS Nothing is better than tuning into WIP (Philly's sports talk radio station) the day after they lose a title game. Grown men call in and break down in tears over the air. Some sound like they're ready to jump off a building. It's fantastic.

[PSUSkinsFan21]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

I live in the Philly suburbs, and I think what gets to the fans around here more than anything is that no pro sports team here has won a title since the Phillies in 1980.

Actually, didn't the Sixers win in 1983? Your point still stands though, its been over 2 decades......the worst drought of any city with the four major sports teams.

Oh, and for the burbs, you can always count Villanova's last championship too (1985? I think). How sad is that though? Even when you throw in the colleges in the area you're still over 20 years.

[bigSkinsfan61]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

I live in the Philly suburbs, and I think what gets to the fans around here more than anything is that no pro sports team here has won a title since the Phillies in 1980. The town has been teased by the 1983 Phillies, 1993 Phillies, 2001 Sixers, and 2004 Eagles all making it to the finals and losing. They're upset because they get so close to winning it all and then lose it.

PS Nothing is better than tuning into WIP (Philly's sports talk radio station) the day after they lose a title game. Grown men call in and break down in tears over the air. Some sound like they're ready to jump off a building. It's fantastic.

yes i see that philly has all the wrong pieces in all the wrong places as thou it seemsi can sympathize with the philly thing im in richmond and ive been tellin peeeps for yrrrrsss that the redskins would never do anything ntil jg came outta retirement well see

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Huddle

With the on-field success the Eagles have enjoyed in recent years, their fans have no reason to be unhappy. They will sing a different tune if their team suffers some lean years.

If I were an Eagle fan I'd actually be extremely upset right now. They have major problems along both their offensive and defensive lines. They got Darren Howard which helps a lot, but they needed to do some things along the offensive line big time. They didn't land LeCharles Bentley and they didn't even try for Steve Hutchinson. They resigned Runyan which helps, but they're still going to be starting Artis Hicks, Hank Fraley, and Shawn Andrews in the interior of the line. That's terrible, considering how much cap room they have.

Eagles fans are very frustrated because they know their team is not what it once was, and yet the team isn't willing to pay for upgrades despite ample cap room. I'd be very frustrated with that too. It shows arrogance on the part of Eagles' management, they seem to be convinced that what they have on hand is good enough, and that they don't have to spend the extra money to compete. It's like they think a guard (Hutchinson) isn't worth $49 million a year. My response to that is WHO CARES WHAT IT COSTS WHEN YOU HAVE $25 MILLION IN CAP ROOM. And a lot of Eagles fans feel the same way.

[PSUSkinsFan21]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

If I were an Eagle fan I'd actually be extremely upset right now. They have major problems along both their offensive and defensive lines. They got Darren Howard which helps a lot, but they needed to do some things along the offensive line big time. They didn't land LeCharles Bentley and they didn't even try for Steve Hutchinson. They resigned Runyan which helps, but they're still going to be starting Artis Hicks, Hank Fraley, and Shawn Andrews in the interior of the line. That's terrible, considering how much cap room they have.

Eagles fans are very frustrated because they know their team is not what it once was, and yet the team isn't willing to pay for upgrades despite ample cap room. I'd be very frustrated with that too. It shows arrogance on the part of Eagles' management, they seem to be convinced that what they have on hand is good enough, and that they don't have to spend the extra money to compete. It's like they think a guard (Hutchinson) isn't worth $49 million a year. My response to that is WHO CARES WHAT IT COSTS WHEN YOU HAVE $25 MILLION IN CAP ROOM. And a lot of Eagles fans feel the same way.

Agree 100% on all counts.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

They resigned Runyan which helps, but they're still going to be starting Artis Hicks, Hank Fraley, and Shawn Andrews in the interior of the line. That's terrible, considering how much cap room they have.

So why did they draft Shawn Andrews? So they could burn a top 20 pick on a guy with a weight problem, and then play him out of position because they don't need to run the ball anyway? He's a great interior pass blocker, because he doesn't need the quickness to block ends, but he's next to useless in the finesse run game (the kind they use).

Although I believe that if a team has the ability to run the ball, the defense will respect it even if they choose not to run, the Eagles DON'T have the ability to run consistently. They have to throw a high percentage of the time, and defenses know that.

Donovan McNabb, meet Andre Carter, Michael Strahan, and Demarcus Ware. You'll be seeing a lot of them this year. It's gonna be interesting to see how the guy responds to consistent pressure, something he's never had to face in his career.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

So why did they draft Shawn Andrews? So they could burn a top 20 pick on a guy with a weight problem, and then play him out of position because they don't need to run the ball anyway? He's a great interior pass blocker, because he doesn't need the quickness to block ends, but he's next to useless in the finesse run game (the kind they use).

Although I believe that if a team has the ability to run the ball, the defense will respect it even if they choose not to run, the Eagles DON'T have the ability to run consistently. They have to throw a high percentage of the time, and defenses know that.

Donovan McNabb, meet Andre Carter, Michael Strahan, and Demarcus Ware. You'll be seeing a lot of them this year. It's gonna be interesting to see how the guy responds to consistent pressure, something he's never had to face in his career.

Yeah I'd consider Andrews an average guard at this point in his career. Fraley is on the downside and Hicks just sucks. Overall it's a rough interior there. They could have used Hutchinson and Bentley.

Tra Thomas will be back healthy this year, and Runyan is back in the fold. Their tackles are definitely the strength of the line, so I think DEs aren't at the forefront of their concerns. Tra Thomas was hurt last year, that's why McNabb got pummelled so bad.

The Eagles can go pass happy when they have the protection and they have receivers who can get open and make plays (TO). But they don't have the receivers this year. The tackles are back, so pass protection should get better. But without good receivers, they're going to need to run the ball effectively at times. That interior line still isn't set up for it. They'll be better on offense this year than last, but I still see a pretty average offense, even with McNabb healthy.

[Huddle]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Eagles fans are very frustrated because they know their team is not what it once was, and yet the team isn't willing to pay for upgrades despite ample cap room. I'd be very frustrated with that too. It shows arrogance on the part of Eagles' management, they seem to be convinced that what they have on hand is good enough, and that they don't have to spend the extra money to compete. It's like they think a guard (Hutchinson) isn't worth $49 million a year. My response to that is WHO CARES WHAT IT COSTS WHEN YOU HAVE $25 MILLION IN CAP ROOM. And a lot of Eagles fans feel the same way.

Your take on the Eagles sounds like its right on the money to me with the exception of your final point about Hutchinson.

Let's say that X represents the team's payroll limit determined by the salary cap. If you overpay your roster by ten per-cent overall, you end up with a roster with a value of .9X.

If instead, you bargain-hunt for personnel and underpay your roster by ten per-cent overall, you end up with a roster with a value of 1.1X.

I think bargain hunting is the key to building the best roster in this salary cap era. Hutchinson isn't a bargain.

On the other hand, a policy of being continually under the cap doesn't cut it either.