F... gas prices

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Can I ask you something? Why is it wrong for companies like Exxon to make boatloads of money?

B/c they're making at my expense [j/k].

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

B/c they're making at my expense [j/k].

Even though you're joking, that's pretty much the crux of their argument.

Why do middle class citizens (and poor and affluent citizens for that matter) have more right to pay low gas prices than Exxon does to charge higher ones?

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Even though you're joking, that's pretty much the crux of their argument.

Why do middle class citizens (and poor and affluent citizens for that matter) have more right to pay low gas prices than Exxon does to charge higher ones?

Well, I think oil is one of those resources where gov. may have some legitimate involvement (not just in taxing its use). To the extent there are monopolistic tendencies or market collusion among the companies, these should be regulated.

I haven't seen any allegations of collusion among oil companies other than "they are charging more, therefore they must be colluding".

In order to work, the free market does require everyone to "play fair", and govt. can legitimately investigate the oil companies actions to determine if they are indeed doing so. I agree, however, that the mere fact that they are making profits does not, in and of itself, mean they are cheating the system. (In a fight, does the fact I won mean I started it?)

While I haven't fully thought through this next point, given the nature of the US economy, some level of govt oversight of oil/gas prices may be appropriate. The US economy, given the size of the country, is reliant on the transport of items over long distances. Radical increases in oil/prices effect markets well beyond oil/gas as an individual commodity. In this way, and even though sold through multiple companies, oil seems to me to have similar market characteristics of a monopoly (i.e. electric, phone and BGE). In such situations, even if no collusion is shown, govt has a role in ensuring that the pricing and profit levels are "fair". (I guess, however, that if Exxon attempted set its price way over market, then everyone would buy from one of the other providers - That appears to me to be the crux of the question - is there enough competition between oil providers to ensure that the price is a true market price).

Also, I think 70Chips point of regulating speculation in the oil/gas market is appropriate. Again, given the effect that increases in oil prices have on other markets, it seems to me speculation in the oil market should be pretty much prohibited. Removing specualation from the picture may ease the growth, hopefully create a more straight forward "supply/demand" equation, and limit the effect of radical price increases on other markets.

[dmek25]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

The bolded part seems to say something along the lines of "we just disagree."

That's great, but you still haven't posted one single argument that holds any water.

Can I ask you something? Why is it wrong for companies like Exxon to make boatloads of money?

if its fair, then why does the government regulate the price of milk, or cigarettes? when is enough, enough?

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by dmek25

schneed, i didnt mean to attack you personally. but we definitely look at this differently. you think its fine for gas to be $5.00- $6.00, or whatever, a gallon so the companies can maintain record profits. we disagree on that. we disagree on how they go about it. we definitely disagree on the governments place in this problem. you see this as capitalism at is finest. i see this as raping the American public. the government can control anything it wants to. why not oil? because of the Saudis influence with the American government. and yes, i understand who O.P.E.C is. and i also understand the military's involvement in the middle east. the little bit of stability they have comes from an American influence/ presence. we Americans are always more then willing to aid any country that asks. how about someone scratching our backs every once in a while?

These "record profits" are only because usage is at an all-time high. Most big companies, like Coca Cola, operate at a 20% profit. Oil companies operate at a 2-7% profit rate. The various levels of Government make 10 times the profit as oil companies in the form of taxes, which they have done zero work to earn. Also, environmental restrictions and regulations force prices and production costs WAY up. The oil companies are NOT the enemy OR the reason for prices being high and moving even higher. The government and Congress has the majority of the guilt and yet, we still listen to them when they want to investigate and tax oil companies into oblivion to please the uninformed sector of the population. Oil companies are ALREADY operating on substandard profit rates and if they're squeezed any more, they will have to begin offering lower quality fuels, forcing us to use more.

Yes, total profits may be records, but you have to look at their profit % which is nothing compared to the Governments'. Also, inflation must be figured into it.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by dmek25

schneed, i didnt mean to attack you personally. but we definitely look at this differently. you think its fine for gas to be $5.00- $6.00, or whatever, a gallon so the companies can maintain record profits. we disagree on that. we disagree on how they go about it. we definitely disagree on the governments place in this problem. you see this as capitalism at is finest. i see this as raping the American public. the government can control anything it wants to. why not oil? because of the Saudis influence with the American government. and yes, i understand who O.P.E.C is. and i also understand the military's involvement in the middle east. the little bit of stability they have comes from an American influence/ presence. we Americans are always more then willing to aid any country that asks. how about someone scratching our backs every once in a while?

So are you saying that the Saudis have influence over the entire American goverment? The just one party in general and which party? How about their influence over the Clinton, Obama, or McCain?

[saden1]

Originally Posted by firstdown

So are you saying that the Saudis have influence over the entire American goverment? The just one party in general and which party? How about their influence over the Clinton, Obama, or McCain?

The Saudis have America by the balls, period. Democrats, republicans, it doesn't matter. That's why the president was begging them to increase their production and reduce prices last week.

[dmek25]

and why we are on the subject, is finding oil in Alaska a sure thing? because if it is, its about time to make that move. im for protecting whats beautiful, and right about America. but this very quickly could become a national crisis, if something isn't done. oil is driving up the price of everything. i really feel for the truckers

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by dmek25

and why we are on the subject, is finding oil in Alaska a sure thing? because if it is, its about time to make that move. im for protecting whats beautiful, and right about America. but this very quickly could become a national crisis, if something isn't done. oil is driving up the price of everything. i really feel for the truckers

Further embarassment...

It's a well-known fact that Alaska is home to a huge oil reserve, one that would nearly double our supply of domestic oil if we tapped into it.

[dmek25]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Further embarassment...

It's a well-known fact that Alaska is home to a huge oil reserve, one that would nearly double our supply of domestic oil if we tapped into it.

quit being a dick. i ask a question, because i didnt know. sorry for being so mis- informed

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by dmek25

quit being a dick. i ask a question, because i didnt know. sorry for being so mis- informed

Dude I was just attacking the post, not you. Now you're calling names.

You called my first post the stupidest thing posted on this site. There was no problem with that.

Maybe I should PM the mods and whine about it to have you warned.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Further embarassment...

It's a well-known fact that Alaska is home to a huge oil reserve, one that would nearly double our supply of domestic oil if we tapped into it.

The estimates are that there are between 5-16 billion barrels in ANWR

Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, 1002 Area, Petroleum Assessment, 1998, Including Economic Analysis (it's an old survey, 1996 so with newer methods more recoverable oil may exist).

By using this resource in a measured way, the US could reduce its dependence on foreign oil by 5-10% for the next 12-15 years.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

The estimates are that there are between 5-16 billion barrels in ANWR

Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, 1002 Area, Petroleum Assessment, 1998, Including Economic Analysis (it's an old survey, 1996 so with newer methods more recoverable oil may exist).

By using this resource in a measured way, the US could reduce its dependence on foreign oil by 5-10% for the next 12-15 years.

It would also IMMEDIATELY begin to lower prices because speaculators price the oil on the market by looking into the future. By opening up ANWR and/or any of our other oil deposits, it would help clear up some of the uncertainty about our future oil. Then, when we actually begun using it, a more substantial price drop.

But yet again, Congress (mostly Democrats) said no.

[Boston Brave]

Expensive gas is here, more expensive gas in the future as that is the result of supply and demand.

[dmek25]

the given in this whole thing is, we need gas. this pretty much constitutes a monopoly. until there are other choices, this should be semi controlled/ watched by the government. this is a big difference between the Dem's and the G.O.P the republicans think that big business is above playing fair. while the Dem's think there is a point where you have enough of a profit margin