NFL Head Coach to be released Tuesday, 6/20

[mheisig]

Originally Posted by That Guy

except its not. if you've got 64, i gaurantee at least 20 suck, and you can win by just picking on them. MMOs are even worse because you're skill level is deeply related to time played (or money used to buy stuff). I've done that and I find UT bots FAR more challenging than most of the humans i've met. The guys that compete for money are generally pretty good, but they rely on memorizing maps and playing 8 hours a day to get there, and i'm just not willing to do that... that's boring. The best games tend to be old ones like total annihilation, alien soldier, civ, xcom, BG/2/planescape etc.

Some new games (like rome total war or unreal tournament) do have good AI though. UT is still path based, so it depends entirely on the mapper, but the illusion works well and at max it's better than 99% of human players.

Huge multiplayer games aren't new though. neverwinter nights (the original one) was up in 1987/88 or I played hundred years war on aol (with 300+ other people) as far back as 1994.

The difference in playing humans is that unless you're playing a complete F-in' retard, they'll learn. Sure, you might pick some "n00bs" off over and over, but they'll catch on and learn from their mistakes.

I'm not talking about twitch skills. Yeah, AI can jump super fast and can be given perfect aim, but that's boring to play against because the only way to win is just "be faster." Games like BF2 actually de-emphasize twitch skills in favor of teamwork and strategy. Watching a dozen defenders hold a building against attack, and then watching the attackers adjust their tactics, use surprise, diversions, etc. is truly a great gaming moment. AI is decades away from being that intelligent.

"Great AI" is currently when the computer opponent will seek cover or toss a grenade around a corner. Occasionaly the really good AI will try to flank you. Human players can recognize overall strategies and apply the necessary team tactics to adapt. I'd love to see the current crop of AI recognize that it's being dominated from the air, organize an attack on an airfield effectively utilizing armor, air and infantry assets, secure the airfield and hold it from counterattack. Even if it WERE able to do this now, a human player could eventually recognize a pattern in the AI programming and exploit it. Humans can adapt - AI can't (yet).

Games like X-Com (one of my all time favorites) and Civ are great games in their own right, but at this point I like them more for nostalgia's sake as opposed to the challenge offered by the AI.

[MTK]

I thought the whole vision cone thing was just awful. Great concept in theory, but I just didn't enjoy it at all. I turned it off pretty quick.

[MTK]

Anybody play the game yet?

Let's hear a review.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Anybody play the game yet?

Let's hear a review.

I'll install it and give it a try. I only have the demo right now though.

[That Guy]

alright, they have sabol and trey wingo doing spots in the game (reports, HoF induction) as crappy looking 3d guys. They also had the steelers/hawks SB highlights re-enacted and its pretty funny to watch


the playbook is done a lot differently in this game. It's organized by situation (2nd and long, goaline, 4th and go for it, etc). When running practice, you choose the offense and defensive plays, and which string (1st 2nd or 3rd) that'll be running each side of that play.

During practice, you have a menu in the bottom right with 4 options: talk to players, pre-snap control, roster, game stats

At any time you can stop to talk to the players (either on the field as an individual or a whole, or a position group) for motivation or strategy (talking = choosing menu options) which can improve stats for a bit.

Strategy lets you tell specific players how to run plays (either jut that time or EVERY time you ever call the play). You can tell your RB to wait on the OL to open holes, try to bounce it outside etc and you have similar options for other positions.

You can also call audibles and formation shifts in the same manner (pre-snap control) which works a lot like it has in every other madden game, though this time menu driven.

Game Stats is what it sounds like, and roster just shows your most fatigued players.

practice has limited snaps, but running a play a lot will make it a "money" play, which, I assume, makes your team run it better in game situations.

[That Guy]

You can play the ENTIRE game in windowed mode, which is awesome. now I can watch TV or read webpages while idling fooling around. quicker load times than madden too, but that may be due to lower res textures or whatnot for this demo; the GFX in this are noticeable less than in madden 06 (PC) though. However, the animations are more important and they're pretty solid.

The music, instead of a modern soudtrack, usses the NFL band exclusively. Since everyone's heard them on SB replays and various NFL shows, it's a decent fit.

after finishing the demo, I think NFL coach is alright. You don't play at all though, you just call the plays. its a nice change of pace and more strategy based... great for people that just aren't that good at madden too. Its more fun than sitting through simmed games in franchise and I like it.


for the offseason, you have a calender with daily tasks and such. you can look up your coach stats (legend ranking, trust, job security, OL, DL, etc) and talk to the owner, position coaches, et al.

You have no control over scouting directors, but you deal with the rest of the staff, other teams' GMs and players' agents directly as well as acting as a GM yourself.

I hate the offseason roster/depth chart menus though. they've redone them so you can only see five stats from a single player at a time (instead of 20 stats or so on 25+ players at once).


The Draft:
They got Kiper! and not only that, he's not even doing the retared generic-speak but being very specific about the (2006) draft. that's a plus. The menus are terrible though. I couldn't find a draft list besides the little scroller thing and everything player related has switched from lists to icons (which take up a lot of space while conveying almost no information).

for something so menu driven, you figure they'd at least get that part right. instead the took what madden is pretty decent at and replace all the menus with terrible clumsy icon based monstrosities.

[That Guy]

you're making up arguements and strawmen.

I simply said the UT bots are better than 95% of human competition at actually being good and hard to beat. then you went off on how "yeah well, that's only cause they aim better, but they don't have any strategy" crap that had nothing to do with what I was saying.

its a real easy arguement when you say whatever a computer does better than humans is meaningles and whatever humans do better is all that matters. but its stupid cause I was talking about actual challenge, not whatever it is you're driveling on about. I seriously think you're arguing just to argue.

I already said AI can't program itself and that's well understood, so this whole two paragraph response is a waste cause its just rehashing arguements i never made or ever said i disagreed with.

[mheisig]

It's been a long time since I've seen such a pathetic attempt at reasoning. The past few responses make it pretty clear this is going nowhere as you can't follow and incredibly simple line of reasoning laid out in a way a five year old could understand, not to mention the fact that we're not actually disagreeing.

Regardless, I haven't got the time and there's much more fun to be had on the Warpath, so I'm done with this thread.

Oh, feel free to have the last word if it makes you feel better.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by mheisig

It's been a long time since I've seen such a pathetic attempt at reasoning. The past few responses make it pretty clear this is going nowhere as you can't follow and incredibly simple line of reasoning laid out in a way a five year old could understand, not to mention the fact that we're not actually disagreeing.

Regardless, I haven't got the time and there's much more fun to be had on the Warpath, so I'm done with this thread.

Oh, feel free to have the last word if it makes you feel better.

please point out what pathetic reasoning i'm failing to understand. I don't get why acting like a 5 year old amuses you, but you obviously need help cause you're the one going on and on and on about this AI crap for no reason.

I simply said the AI is good games is better than most humans. I apologize that you couldn't follow that extremely simple line of reasoning and felt the need to tell me what my opinions should be. And then got upset and threw a tamtrum.