Chicago @ Arizona

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by irish

Didnt Campbell play at Auburn? I'm pretty sure Auburn is inthe SEC? That's at least as big a stage in college ball as the PAC 10.

I dont think it has anything to do with polish, (How polished can TB's Grabowski be? What big college stage did he play on?) and almost everything to do with a coach that just cannot get up to speed with how things are done in the 2006 NFL.

Philip Rivers played one (maybe two, can't remember) game his first two seasons. Having sat out the first two years hasn't hurt him in year three. There are countless other examples of QBs who sat the first couple of years and went on to be successful (Delhomme and Rypien for example. Two who played in Super Bowls)

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

There's no comparing Leinart to Campbell. Leinart played 4 years at USC which is basically as big of a stage as you can get outside of the NFL. He also didn't have a different offensive coordinator every year like Campbell, and unlike Campbell, Leinart was a star throughout his college career and didn't take until his senior year to blossom like Campbell.

Leinart is very polished for a rookie QB, Campbell was much more green as a rookie and even in his 2nd year he's probably not as polished as Leinart is as a rookie. I'm not saying that Campbell couldn't come in right now and play well, but I really doubt he would have been ready last year as a rookie.

OK, how about Gradkowski for Tampa Bay? Is that a better comparison for you? He started his first game and won!

Imagine that?

[onlydarksets]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

There's no comparing Leinart to Campbell. Leinart played 4 years at USC which is basically as big of a stage as you can get outside of the NFL. He also didn't have a different offensive coordinator every year like Campbell, and unlike Campbell, Leinart was a star throughout his college career and didn't take until his senior year to blossom like Campbell.

Leinart is very polished for a rookie QB, Campbell was much more green as a rookie and even in his 2nd year he's probably not as polished as Leinart is as a rookie. I'm not saying that Campbell couldn't come in right now and play well, but I really doubt he would have been ready last year as a rookie.

Carroll's system, from what I understand, is basically a pro system anyway. It's not like he spent 3 years running the option at UT.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by irish

Does it say something about Campbell that Leinart can start and play great vs the feared Bears D as a rookie while Campbell needs to be coached up for a week as a 2nd year player to even be considered as a starter.

Unfortunately, it might say something.

But the lockstep Brunell supporters/Gibbs-can-do-no-wrong crowd can't have it both ways. If they trust Gibbs and his ability to judge quarterbacks implicitly, the way they say "he knows best" with Mark Brunell, then they can't at the same time say that Campbell is ready to play when Joe Gibbs clearly doesn't.

[EternalEnigma21]

I was as excited as anyone about the cards, and at exactly midnight my cable (and thus my internet connection) went completely dead. There was 40 seconds on the game clock and the cards had timeouts and were driving....

I woke up expecting to hear about the upset... I wonder if Neil Rakers will have a job tomorrow....

Then I wonder if rAckers would be an upgrade from novak??

[Crat92]

Man Are you crazy? Lienart played in the weak ass pac 10! Campbell played in the BEST conference in college football bar none. THE SEC! Plus he excelled in college with 4, count'em,4 offensive coordinators! The talent around Matt Lienart made him and will continue to make him great! Why not give the kid a shot. ML is just another overhyped "prototypical" QB comin out of college! Campbell needs to play right now, or there won't be a future! How can Campbell be judged in the pre-season when he wasn't even out there with the starters! HAIL from MCUSA!

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by Crat92

Man Are you crazy? Lienart played in the weak ass pac 10! Campbell played in the BEST conference in college football bar none. THE SEC! Plus he excelled in college with 4, count'em,4 offensive coordinators! The talent around Matt Lienart made him and will continue to make him great! Why not give the kid a shot. ML is just another overhyped "prototypical" QB comin out of college! Campbell needs to play right now, or there won't be a future! How can Campbell be judged in the pre-season when he wasn't even out there with the starters! HAIL from MCUSA!

stop with the incessant logic. even thinking of questioning JG's judgement is blasphemy.

[hooskins]

Originally Posted by illdefined

stop with the incessant logic. even thinking of questioning JG's judgement is blasphemy.

HAHA

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Crat92

Campbell needs to play right now, or there won't be a future!

By what logic?

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

By what logic?

read the rest of the post. and do you remember what happened to our last "QB of the future"? no.3 QB of the Jets...

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by illdefined

read the rest of the post. and do you remember what happened to our last "QB of the future"? no.3 QB of the Jets...

Well a.) remember that he inherited Ramsey and b.) not playing now doesn't doom Campbell to a life of failure. I just don't see the logic in the argument that all the great QBs play right away. If not, then they're ruined.

[hooskins]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

Well a.) remember that he inherited Ramsey and b.) not playing now doesn't doom Campbell to a life of failure. I just don't see the logic in the argument that all the great QBs play right away. If not, then they're ruined.

Only thing is, JC might get frustrated, and leave. Shit I would if I were him.

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

Well a.) remember that he inherited Ramsey and b.) not playing now doesn't doom Campbell to a life of failure. I just don't see the logic in the argument that all the great QBs play right away. If not, then they're ruined.

that's true Ramsey was inherited, but Gibbs still called Ramsey "the QB of the future" here after the 2004 season and trained him to be so. just stating the precedent.

[itvnetop]

Originally Posted by Crat92

Man Are you crazy? Lienart played in the weak ass pac 10! Campbell played in the BEST conference in college football bar none. THE SEC! Plus he excelled in college with 4, count'em,4 offensive coordinators! The talent around Matt Lienart made him and will continue to make him great! Why not give the kid a shot. ML is just another overhyped "prototypical" QB comin out of college!

Dude, you're drinking some extra smooth haterade if you think Leinart's success has nothing to do with his own play. Yes he had great players around him at SC and I predicted people would attribute the cardinals weapons to his NFL play if he were to be successful.

You can say all you want about SEC dominance, but if you compare the two conferences, Pac-10 definitely has a decided edge in the offensive schemes over the SEC. SEC has great defense (in addition to excellent fans and atmosphere), but their offenses are not as sophisticated as those in the Pac's.

Regardless of perceived conference strengths and weaknesses, let's not forget that Leinart played plenty on the big stage outside the Pac. When Matty stated this, I'm sure he didn't mean just conference play. Leinart's very first start in college was against Auburn in Auburn. Um, I think the score in his very first game (in a vaunted SEC stadium, btw) was 23-0 SC. Oh yeah, Reggie Bush and Lendale White were also freshmen who had never played a college snap until that game (both only combined for 15 rushing yards that evening). Let's not even mention Leinart's performances in the Rose Bowl against Michigan that season, Virginia Tech in the Kickoff Classic (in a hostile FedEx Field), and Oklahoma and Texas in two Natty's. I'd say he's performed on a big stage, outside of the Pac-10. Give the man some credit please!

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by itvnetop

You can say all you want about SEC dominance, but if you compare the two conferences, Pac-10 definitely has a decided edge in the offensive schemes over the SEC. SEC has great defense (in addition to excellent fans and atmosphere), but their offenses are not as sophisticated as those in the Pac's.

Regardless of perceived conference strengths and weaknesses, let's not forget that Leinart played plenty on the big stage outside the Pac. When Matty stated this, I'm sure he didn't mean just conference play. Leinart's very first start in college was against Auburn in Auburn. Um, I think the score in his very first game (in a vaunted SEC stadium, btw) was 23-0 SC. Oh yeah, Reggie Bush and Lendale White were also freshmen who had never played a college snap until that game (both only combined for 15 rushing yards that evening). Let's not even mention Leinart's performances in the Rose Bowl against Michigan that season, Virginia Tech in the Kickoff Classic (in a hostile FedEx Field), and Oklahoma and Texas in two Natty's. I'd say he's performed on a big stage, outside of the Pac-10. Give the man some credit please!

Offensive schemes mean nothing when the players that run them are crap. And make no misake, when Leinart was at USC, that's exactly what the rest of the PAC-10 was -- CRAP.

Playing on the "big stage" is fanspeak. Nothing else. No matter what the audience is like, for every football player in each of their own atmospheres it's the same -- they feel like the world is watching. And for every Notre Dame, Auburn, and UCLA that they played, there were 10 or 20 Stanfords, U. of Arizonas, and Hawaii. Pointing this out doesn't take anything away from Leinart's abilities, just that the comparisons to him and Campbell are more even than you and Matty think.

And just to echo the point (since no one responded the first time), either Campbell is ready to play or he's not. If you trust in Gibbs with his decisions regarding Brunell, then you have to trust in his infinite wisdom that for some reason, Campbell isn't what they thought he was -- and that's why he's not leading this offense right now.